Down
The trial started in July 1972 and lasted for several months. The presiding judge was Chief Justice Sir Georges Souyave. Mr. Guy Pool was represented by a brilliant Kenyan attorney, Mr. Kapila co-counsel to Mr. Valabhji. Mr. Kapila made his name in the trial of Jomo Kenyatta where he appeared as junior Counsel. Mr. Grimett appeared for the Crown and conducted the case for the Prosecution. Mr. O’Brien Queen was the Attorney General at the time and he was subsequently arrested and deported from
The Guy Pool trial
In the last two issues Le Nouveau Seychelles Weekly published the two statements given by Guy Pool to the police after his arrest. Both statements were admitted by the Courts as exhibits. In his statements Guy Pool raised an alibi defence by claiming that he was at a dance at the Baie Lazare Social Centre at the time of the explosion, when asked about his whereabouts on the night of the explosion by the police. The Prosecution called several witnesses to refute Guy Pool’s alibi by showing to the Court that Guy Pool was in fact not telling the truth in his statements to the police. Last week we look at the evidence of Michel Marie and Amede Larue and Today we reproduce below the evidence of the Prosecution’s star witness namely:
1. Mr. Stanley Hermitte
Mr. Hermitte single handedly destroyed Guy Pool’s case with his damning testimony!
P.W. Stanley Hermitte
We produce below the evidence of Stanley Hermitte.
Stanley Hermitte: I wish to give my evidence in Creole. I remember Sunday 13th February 1972. I was at home that day. My house is at a place known as “Dans camp poules” at Anse Aux Pins. I live with Daphne Pool. I was in concubinage with her. I know Guy Pool. He is the accused here.
On the 13th February, 1972 I was at home. In the evening I was sleeping. Daphne had gone to work at Reef Hotel, Anse Aux Pins. She worked from 3 p.m. to midnight. At midnight on 13th February she came home. She arrived about 12.10 or 12.15 a.m. I estimate the time as I have no way of telling the time. That is the time she usually arrives home. When she came she woke me up. I opened the door and she came in.
After she came in she fell down where she sleeps and so did I. We both went to sleep. She slept on the verandah and I slept in the room. The verandah is a closed one. I then heard a noise like something falling. It sounded like thunder. That was about 1 or 1.15 a.m. I had no time on me. When I heard the noise I did not say anything. A woman living next door said “what had fallen” and I replied “it sounded like thunder in the air” ( Mr. Kapila not objecting to the last answer).
About ¾ hr. later something happened. I heard Daphne replying “yes”. She got up, put on the electricity light and opened the door. She switched on the electricity light. She opened the door. I got up from my bed and followed her. I saw Guy Pool entered. I am sure it was Guy Pool, the person who entered. As he entered he said “put off the light”. I do not know who put off the light but the light was switched off. I saw him with his shirt and singlet over his shoulder. He had removed his shirt and his singlet and they were over his shoulder. He sat in an armchair. I sat on a chair and so did Daphne. He asked his sister whether there was anything to drink. She said there was nothing only water. His sister asked what had happened because she had heard something blowing off (un pete). He said “moi quine baize zotte l’hotel ec bombe” (I am the one who baised them at the hotel) I clearly heard him say so. He looked very tired at the time. You could notice he looked like someone who had been running. He looked very tired and he was breathing heavily. He said he had gone by car, the car had left him down the hotel, he watched P’tit Bert Laporte finish going round the hotel and after he had gone down about 10 minutes later he planted the bomb.
I know Ptit Bert by the name Ptit Bert. He works as a guard at the hotel. I know he is Ptit Bert Laporte who works as a guard at Reef Hotel.
Guy said he ran via Orangine, he went to Ratnan’s shop, when he arrived there he lost his way, he took another way, ran through the field, (plaine) and came to his sister’s place. He said that after he had lost his way, he turned and took another road and ran to our place. He said that when he arrived near the school the bomb exploded. When it went off he fell down. He then got up and he came up and called his sister. He did not say why he had put that bomb.
He asked for something to drink. He was told there was water. His sister told him to go to sleep. He said he could not sleep as his mother did not know where he was. His sister told him “let’s go I will accompany you”. He took his shirt but he left his singlet at our house. Daphne went with him saying “let’s go by the cemetery”. Half an hour later Daphne returned home. She was then alone.
Guy stayed at our place for about 10 minutes. That morning Daphne told me she was going to work. She came back home at 3 p.m. I did not work at that time. That day I stayed at home. When Daphne came back from work she told me something. I made a statement to the police in February. I do not remember the date. It was 2 or 3 days after the bomb had exploded. In that statement to the police I did not say what I am saying now. I did not say so because Daphne and Guy had said they would kill me.
When Daphne was about to accompany Guy home, before they left Guy said that he would kill me if he heard that people had found out because I was the only one who knew of it (moi touille ou si mon entendre sa parole parce que ou qui connait). When Daphne returned from accompanying Guy home she said (attention ou pas cause sa parole) “be careful you don’t speak about this”.
Q. Did you believe you would be killed if you spoke?
Mr. Kapila: This is a leading question.
Q. What were your feelings on hearing this from Guy and Daphne?
A. There was always a fear in me. I was afraid that they would kill me.
Q. In the statement you made to the police a few days after the explosion what did you tell the police?
Mr. Kapila: Secondary evidence. Statement should be produced.
Q. Do you have a bicycle?
A. Yes.
Q. Has Guy ever borrowed it?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he borrow it on Sunday 13th February?
A. No.
Q. Could he have borrowed it if he wanted to?
A. The inner tube had burst. It had burst about 15 days before 13th February. I had removed the inner tube, cut it and thrown it up. The bicycle was at my place. On 13th February the bicycle had only one inner tube.
Q. After you had made a first statement to the police did anything happen?
A. Nothing happened. It was his sister Daphne who had told me to give that statement to the police.
Q. After you had given that statement did you see Guy again?
A. Yes.
Q. Where and when?
A. I saw him on the public road near the sea at Anse Aux Pins. He spoke to me. He asked me whether I had given a statement to the police. That was the day after the police had taken a statement from me. I do not remember the date. It was in the same month as the explosion i.e. February. I made a second statement to the police. I had forgotten the date but I think it was 15 days after my first statement.
Q. After the second statement did you see Guy again?
A. I saw him several times afterwards.
Q. Do you still live with Daphne?
A. No.
Q. When did you cease living with her?
A. When I gave the statement to the police on 29th July, it was 16 days since I’d stopped living with her. I made the statement on 28th July. That was the third statement I had made to the police.
Q. Around the time you made the statement on 28th July, did you see Guy?
A. Yes. He told me he had heard that the police had come to take a statement from me on the 27th. I told him no. He then said “tonight they will come and take a statement from you do not give them one”. I am going to Australia on the 13th , I will reward you.
Q. When did Guy told you that?
A. On 28th at 2 p.m. on the public road at Anse Aux Pins.
Court. Did the police come and take a statement from you that evening?
A. Yes.
A.G. And did you tell them what you are telling us today?
A. Yes.
Q. You said you heard this noise like thunder on the 13th February and you had some words with the lady next door, did you go to sleep after that?
A. Yes.
Q. And what woke you up?
A. Nothing woke me up.
Q. Did you wake up?
A. No I did not wake up again until 6 a.m. when Daphne went to work.
Q. Did Guy arrive that morning?
Mr. Kapila: I object. This is a leading question.
Q. You heard this noise like thunder, what did you do after that?
A. I did not do anything.
Q. Did anything happen?
A. I saw Guy arriving at my house after I had heard the explosion.
Q. How long after you heard the explosion did Guy arrive ?
Mr. Kapila: The witness has already said so.
In answer from court A.G says that as far as he is aware the witness had made only 2 statements to the police and he is passing them to his friend Mr. Kapila and he will try and find out if he has made a third one. If so he will pass it on to Mr. Kapila.
Q. You said you made 3 statements to the police?
A. Yes.
Q. You are sure you did not make 4?
A. I am sure.
Q. On 3 occasions at least what you said was taken down by a police officer?
A. Yes.
Q. The first time was in February just after the explosion?
A. Yes about 15 days after. That was the first statement. It was a Seychellois. I made the second statement to a stranger.
Q. Was it a Scotland Yard Officer?
A. Yes. I was told he was a Scotland Yard Officer. I made the third statement to a Seychellois Officer namely Insp. Servina. On the first occasion I made a statement there were 2 policemen there with me. I do not know their names. If I see them I will recognize them. The statement was taken in my house. At the taking of the second statement there were 2 officers who were strangers and one Seychellois police officer. At the taking of the third statement apart from Insp. Servina, there was Mr. Confait and one Pool. I think he is a sergeant. I do not know whether he is related to my concubine. There was nobody else.
Q. On each occasion did you agree at the time that they were properly recorded?
A. Yes.
Q. At the end did you put your thumb mark?
A. Yes.
Q. You don’t speak English?
A. No.
Q. You don’t read or write?
A. No.
Q. Did you also make a statement to A.S.P. Confait?
A. That was the third statement I made, he was there.
By Court
Q. That was the third statement that you gave to Servina?
A. Yes.
By Kapila:
Q. You made 3 statements which were taken in writing?
A. Yes.
Q. To how many police officers did you speak about this case?
A. To police officers who took the statements.
Q. How many times have you spoken to them about the case?
A. Once.
Q. Which police officers?
A. I do not know their names.
Q. Apart from the police officers who recorded your statements did you talk to other police officers about this case?
A. I do not remember. When the English police officers arrived on this occasion they came to see me, that was this last trip.
Q. How recent was this?
A. Last month.
Q. About when?
A. About a week ago.
Q. How many of these officers discussed the case with you?
A. One came to see me.
Q. Do you know his name?
A. I don’t know his name. He came to see me where I was staying at the prison. He stayed with me for about 10 minutes. I saw him writing. He asked me one or two questions. I saw him with a pencil. I do not know what he was writing. I did not put my mark on it. I did not notice whether he was writing but he had paper and pencil. I cannot say what he wrote. He did not read it back to me. I do not know how many questions he asked me. He asked me 5 or 6 questions. He asked me whether from Mrs. Larue’s place they could hear what was said at Daphne’s place. He asked me whether Mrs. Larue could hear when we spoke loudly or softly. He asked me how Mrs. Larue’s house was in relation to my place and I told him. I saw him with a pencil. I do not know whether he wrote my answers or not but I supposed he must have been writing. I did not actually see him writing. There was a young Seychellois policeman present. I do not know his name. I was speaking in Creole. The Scotland Yard Officer did not speak Creole. The policemen interpreted it for us. I did not discuss this case with any prison officers. I did not speak to them about this case nor to any other police officers. I did not talk to Mr. Ashford. I do not know Mr. Ashford.
After the court resumed on the 6th October Mr. Quinn, the Attorney General, informed the court that he had made enquiries and that witness Stanley Hermitte had made only two statements to the police.
Stanley Hermitte then continues
Q. Who are these two gentlemen near you?
A. Two policemen.
Q. Do you know why they have accompanied you here?
A. Yes.
Q. Why?
A. Because they will kill me.
Q. Who?
A. Guy Pool and Daphne.
Q. In this court this morning?
A. These two policemen watch over me that they will not kill me. They are protecting me in this court.
(Supt. Ashford is called into court. He gives his name as David Ernest Ashford.)
Q. Do you know this gentleman?
A. I do not know him.
Q. Have you ever seen him before?
A. I could have seen him but I do not know him. I have seen his face before. There are lots of people whose faces I have seen.
Q. Have you seen this gentlemen’s face before?
A. I cannot remember whether I have seen him. I do not know him. I have not seen his face. It is possible I have seen him. I’ve seen a lot of people. Some people I have seen wearing shorts and when I see them in long trousers I do not recognize them.
Q. Are you going to tell us the truth?
A. Yes.
Q. What are your feelings towards Daphne?
A. I don’t feel anything but I fear that she will kill me.
Q. Do you hate her?
A. No.
Q. Do you dislike her?
A. I like her (mon content li) but I distrust her (mon pa fie li).
Q. Are you still fond of her?
A. I do not have any love for her at present.
Q. You have lived with her for 9 years?
A. Yes.
Q. You have 2 children by her?
A. Yes.
Q. How do you feel towards Guy?
A. I do not feel anything.
Q. When you made your second statement to the police on 28th July to Servina you said you were still on good terms with t he accused, although you had separated with Daphne?
A. Yes.
Q. That was true?
A. Yes.
Q. And that was in spite of the fact that he had already threatened to kill you before that day?
A. Yes.
Q. Even Daphne had threatened to kill you?
A. Yes.
Q. In fact you broke with Daphne in July?
A. Yes.
Q. Until then did you love her?
A. Yes.
Q. And you believed that she loved you?
A. Yes I still loved her. I believed she loved me too.
Q. You say that, that night Guy came to your house in the middle of the night?
A. Yes.
Q. And he himself told you that he had baised the hotel?
A. Yes.
Q. If he had not told you, you would not have known?
A. No.
Q. A few minutes later this woman who loved you told you, “if you tell this to anybody we will kill you?
A. Yes.
Q. Does not that sound stupid to you?
A. It can’t be stupid. Someone tells you she’s going to kill you, she can’t be stupid. I do not know whether I’m stupid or intelligent. Guy told me that he had bombed the hotel and then he told me that he would kill me.
Q. Didn’t Daphne and Guy trust you on that day?
A. They did.
Q. You were like her husband?
A. Yes.
Q. You’re very fond of the children?
A. Yes.
Q. You said in your statement on 28th July “when Guy left my place on that night I do not know whether he really went to the dance at Baie Lazare”?
A. I said so to the police.
Q. Is that true?
A. Yes I said it and it’s true.
Q. What time did he leave your place?
A. I have no time at home. He left home about 1.10 or 1.15.
Q. Would you expect the dance at Baie Lazare to continue after that time?
A. I don’t know. I’ve never been to a dance at Baie Lazare. I don’t know when it ends. I do not know if he meant to go on foot, car or by lorry.
Q. Or by bicycle?
A. He could go by bicycle.
Q. That’s the time when he went with his sister?
A. Yes.
Q. Having taken off his shirt?
A. Yes.
Q. And he was looking very tired?
A. Yes.
Q. Frightened to go home alone?
A. Yes.
Q. And you don’t know whether he went to the dance after that?
A. I don’t know.
Q. Are you not being stupid?
A. No.
Q. You think he might have gone to the dance?
A. This I can’t say.
Q. I put it to you that when you said that sentence you had forgotten that you were supposed to say that he had gone on your bicycle at 8 o’clock to the dance at Baie Lazare?
A. He did not go on my bicycle.
Q. I put it to you that when you were saying “I don’t know that he went to the dance at Baie Lazare you were thinking of before the explosion?
A. I said it in the first statement which his sister told me to make. I did say that he had gone to the dance on my bicycle.
Q. I suggest to you that when you said you did not know whether he had gone to Baie Lazare or not you were thinking of the period before the bomb explosion?
A. I did not say that I thought he would go to the dance at Baie Lazare.
Q. You said in that statement you didn’t know whether he really went to the dance at Baie Lazare when he left your place?
A. Yes I said that.
Q. You were speaking about the period before the bomb exploded?
A. No.
Q. Did you expect him or do you think it possible to go to a dance at Baie Lazare leaving your house at 1.15 and after he had thrown a bomb in the hotel?
A. I did not think that in my mind.
Q. It would be ridiculous to think that?
A. Yes.
Q. Since you had broke up with Daphne have you had a number of quarrels with her?
A. One or two.
Q. Even to the extent that both of you went to the police station to make reports?
A. Yes.
Q. Since you broke up have you in that period been issuing threats about what you would do to her?
A. No.
Q. You never said you would fix her up and her family?
Mr. Kapila: I withdraw that question.
Q. Do you know Mrs. Christianne Jacques?
A. Yes.
Q. Born Nelsa Morel?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you have a conversation with her about Daphne?
A. No.
Q. Or you can’s remember?
A. I did not have a conversation with her.
Q. You remember meeting her on a Thursday after you’d left Daphne and you called out to her and asked her to wait for you?
A. I’ve met her several times.
Q. You asked her for some money to buy some tobacco?
A. Yes.
Q. And she said I’ve got no money I’ve just bought some fish?
A. Yes.
Q. You were talking to some men including one Antat?
A. It could be.
Q. At that moment Daphne walked across the field?
A. I do not remember this. I did not notice her.
Q. And you said to Nelsa “look at that baise son maman”?
A. No I did not say that.
Q. You used some more filthy words about Daphne and one Dogley?
A. No.
Q. You suggested that she was sleeping with Dogley and no longer with you?
A. No.
Q. You know this Dogley?
A. Yes.
Q. And you suspected she was sleeping with him?
A. I suspected it but I did not know it as a fact I told her about that but never saw them.
Q. You sent one of your children to Dolgey’s wife accusing Daphne of having relations with Dogley?
A. No. I sent my child to tell Dogley’s wife that Daphne had gone to Anse Boileau with Dogley but I did not accuse them of sleeping together.
Q. Did you say to Nelsa then “I will do something to Daphne that will stop her sleeping with men”?
A. No.
Q. Has Nelsa ever had quarrel with you?
A. No.
Q. Your relations are still good?
A. Yes.
Q. Did she say to you “this is not my business”
A. She never told me this.
Q. Adding “I do not wish to interfere in your personal affairs”?
A. She did not say anything to me.
Q. You are on oath and you are speaking about a woman you still like. Did you say to Nelsa “I have gone to the Reef with an iron bar to kill her(Daphne)”?
A. No.
Q. And you said “I did not catch her”?
A. I did not say those words.
Q. Did you go to the Reef with an iron bar?
A. No.
Q. Did you say to her “I will make the Pool family shed tears of blood”?
A. No.
(A woman is called into court and gives her names as Nelsa Morel and Christianne Jacques)
Witness: I know her ; She is the one I asked money for tobacco.
Q. Will you accept you have made threats against Daphne to other people?
A. I will not accept.
Q. Do you Fatima Larue?
A. I do not know her.
(A woman is called in giving her name as Fatima Larue also known as Isoline at home)
Witness: I know her as Isoline.
Q. Have you ever threatened her?
A. No. I am on good terms with her.
Q. You know she started working for Daphne on 14th July?
A. I saw her working there. I had left Daphne.
Q. You watched the children before you left and when you did she employed Isoline?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you tell her not to work there?
A. No.
Q. Quite a liar are you not, you drop your eyes each time you are lying?
A. How do I drop my eyes. I have given evidence in Magistrates’ Court.
Q. This is the first time you are giving false evidence?
A. I am not giving false evidence.
Q. Did you tell Isoline that she could work during the day and not at night otherwise she would get what was coming for Daphne?
A. No.
Q. On the following Saturday after 14th July did you go to Daphne and speak to her in the presence of Isoline?
A. I do not remember.
Q. It was a day on which you had been paid?
A. I did not go to Daphne’s place, I stood outside. I did not see Isoline there. That was after I had left Daphne. Daphne stood inside the front door.
Q. You said “You know why you are not coming”?
A. No.
Q. What did you say?
A. I had gone there to see my children. I told Daphne so. She said yes. My children came, I saw them and then I left. Everything was in a friendly manner. We did not say any harsh words to each other. I do not know if you want to believe it. We had had a row before. I was not angry with her. I had been to the police station already. I do not know whether she’d been to the police. I was not angry with her although I’d been to the police.
Q. I put it to you that you said to Daphne “I know why you are not coming out”?
A. No.
Q. And added “I will kill you and you will go to prison for 20 years”
A. No.
Q. Daphne said to you “I will receive my pardon before God”?
A. I never said that. Isoline could come and say those words.
Q. Daphne said to you “ what do you like”?
A. No.
Q. And you stood there and argued with her?
A. No.
Q. Then Daphne went to the police?
A. I don’t know.
Q. You later returned?
A. What time later.
Q. You tell me?
A. When.
Q. That day after you’d been to see the children?
A. I did not return there later.
Q. I put it to you that you returned later and threw a stone?
A. No.
Q. And you again quarelled with her?
A. No. after I had a quarrel and left her, we’ve not had any more quarrels.
Q. You said to her “you will stop going with men and working at the hotel?”
A. No.
Q. Do you ever lie?
A. No.
Q. Will you be able to lie completely?
A. I do not understand what you are saying.
Q. If you would have to tell a lie do you think you would make a good job of it?
A. I don’t know.
Q. When you made the first statement to the police did you tell lies to them?
A. Yes because his sister told me to tell lies.
Q. You were doing it for his sister and not your wife?
A. I can’t tell her my wife. I said his sister and you know that she was living with me.
I lied to the police when I gave my first statement.
Q. You said that you never tell a lie?
A. I told you I did not know. His sister told me to lie.
Q. You tell a lie when somebody tells you to tell a lie?
A. Everybody tells lies.
Q. Did the police appear to believe you at that time?
A. According to me yes.
Q. Both of them.
A. Yes.
Q. You made quite a competent job out of it that time. You did it well?
A. Yes. I was told to give it, I did.
Q. You said that Scotland Yard later took a statement in which you told the same thing?
A. Yes.