The Guy Pool Trial
“After I had given my statement to Guy Pool’s lawyer he then told me not to make statement to the police”.
Last Week Albert Rene answered questions about his principles and feelings for the Indian Community. He said “I do have some fairly strong feelings against certain members of the Indian Community”. This week we continue with the questioning of former president Rene by the prosecution on his involvement with the bombing incident at the Reef Hotel. Rene is asked by the prosecutor about his access to gelignite and if the police had ever refused to hand out gelignite to him or his servants? To which he answered “I don’t know. I’ve never gone to the police to ask for it. My servants have gone to the police to get it for me. I don’t know if they’re been refused not to my knowledge. I know there was a period when nobody was getting it. I don’t know if they applied. When this man is blasting and needs gelignite he would go to the police and get a form and specify whatever he needed. I have to sign as owner of the land. He is a licensed blasterer. He would take his gelignite and place it in a safe box at the police station from which he would be issued whenever he needed. All I would be aware of is that I signed a particular form as owner. I would pay for the holes he has blasted. The whole of it would de done in my office as far as I’m connected with it.”
ALBERT RENE was said in a statement read in court today to have shown Guy Pool and others how to make bombs.
Chief Justice Sir George Souyave ruled this morning that the confession to the police, allegedly made by Guy Pool, the accused in the Reef Hotel Bomb Trial, and which mentioned Mr. Rene was admissible.
The confession had formed the subject of a trial within a trial for the past few days because the defence contended that it was not been made voluntarily .
After several witnesses gave evidence about circumstances surrounding the confession and the Prosecution and defence made their submission, the judge gave his ruling and Detective Constable Dominic Wen Yam who wrote down Pool’s statement read it to the court.
In the statement the accused, after being cautioned according to the Judges rules, said that on Monday February 7 he was informed by his brother Yvon Pool of Anse Aux Pins that Mr. Albert Rene wanted to see him.
The next day, he said, he went to the SPUP office and there saw Mr. Rene and asked why he was wanted. He said Mr. Rene told him it was not too necessary, but he would see him at Chez Nous on Saturday night. Pool said in a statement that he went to Chez Nous on Saturday afternoon about 4 p.m. but did not see Mr. Rene. The following day, Sunday, he went back there to meet his brother to go to town for an SPUP public meeting on Gordon Square. He said Mr. Rene was there and after taking him aside told him to wait for him at Chez Nous at 8 p.m. Pool said in the statement that he asked what for, and Mr. Rene told him that he would be told then.
After the meeting, the accused said, he went home and changed, then returned to Chez Nous where there was a party going on. He went to his brother’s shop and Mr. Rene came to him there and told him to walk a bit down the road and he would meet him there. About five minutes later, Pool said, Mr. Rene came to meet him in a white car and asked him to get in. They went towards the town and about 200 yards further, the car stopped and a “black young man” whom he knew as Bonte got in. When they neared the road leading to La Misere Mr. Rene, said Pool, turned down a side road near the chapel and stopped in front of a house. The accused said Mr. Rene went inside and about two minutes later asked them to come in. A young man whom he knew as Flake Vidot, come in just behind them, said Pool.
Once inside, the statement continued, Mr. Rene and Flake went into a room and came back with a vacquoi bag and two alluminium Japanese buoys. Pool said Mr. Rene told them he would show them how to make bombs. The content of the bag was emptied on the floor and Pool said as far as he remembered there were three 18-inch sticks and gelignite and ten other sticks about six inches long. He said Mr. Rene told them to fill in the buoys with the sticks. Bonte, Flake and he started, said Pool, but the smell of the gelignite made him dizzy and he fainted. When he came to, he continued, he saw the three fixing the fuse to the buoys.
After this, Mr. Rene sewed the buoys in two new vacquoi bags and asked him if he had courage. Pool said he told him he was feeling a bit weak and was given an orange to drink. The statement goes on with Pool saying that they got into the car with the two bags and another one and went up towards La Misere. On reaching La Louise, Flake Vidot got out with the third bag which contained wrapping paper from the gelignite and went with it into the woods. He did not return. Pool said that Mr. Rene, Bonte and he then went towards Anse Aux Pins in the car until they reached Petit Paris where a grey car was parked by the roadside. There was a man sleeping in it, he said, and Bonte got out with two bags and went to the car. He returned and told Mr. Rene that the car would not start, said Pool and Mr. Rene asked him to help Bonte to give it a push. The car refused to start in spite of their effort, and Bonte told Mr. Rene to take him to Pointe Larue where he would take a Costain’s pickup. The bags were left locked up in the Grey car. Pool said that on reaching Cascade Mr. Rene told him that Bonte would give him one of the bags and that he would place it at Reef Hotel where there was nobody about.
On reaching Bric a Brac the place where he was first picked up, Pool said, Mr. Rene told him to alight and wait for Bonte. He waited by the roadside for about 20 minutes and then Bonte returned in a white Costain’s pick up. He got in and he and Bonte returned to Petit Paris where Bonte retrieved the two bags from the grey car and they returned to Anse Aux Pins. The accused said Bonte drove to the south end of the Reef Hotel, gave him a bag and then left. He added that beforehand Mr. Rene had told him to light the fuse of the bomb with his cigarette and run. Pool said he went up the steps of the hotel, lit the fuse and threw the bag into the storey of the building and ran. He was frightened he said, and ran to his sister’s house. About 100 feet from the house he heard an explosion and was so frightened he fell down. He got up immediately and went to the house and called his sister, he said. She opened the door asked him what was wrong and he told her that he was scared and that Mr. Rene had told him to place a bomb at the Reef Hotel.
He said while he was talking to his sister, Stanley Hermitte his sister’s “concubine” came out. Pool was scared of going home alone and his sister asked Hermitte to accompany him, but Hermitte refused. So his sister accompanied him and on reaching his house he was so frightened that he sat on a rock where he fell asleep and woke up at 6.15 next morning. He told his mother who inquired where he had been that he had been to Baie Lazare. The statement added that Mr. Rene told the accused to come and see him the next day, but he went on the following day, Tuesday, and Mr. Rene told him to say he had been at a dance at Baie Lazare if he was question by the police. Ending his statement Pool said he placed the bomb through friendship for Mr. Rene and that received no money. He added that if he knew the trouble it was going to cause he would not have done it.
A. Anybody who asked, the court or the police.
Q. On 5th April did Commander Leckey interview you?
A. He came to talk to me sometime.
Q. At S.P.U.P. office?
A. Yes.
Q. Did he ask you “Do you have any knowledge as to who is responsible for these explosions”?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you answer “no”?
A. Correct.
Q. Did he then ask you “if you did know would you tell us” and you answered “no I would not”?
A. It’s a lie. I told him exactly what I’ve told the court, that if I know I would tell.
Q. You said that Commander Leckey would be lying if he had said that you had said “no I would not” in answer to the question “if you did know would you tell us”?
A. Yes I said so.
Q. Was Sgt. Greatley present at the same time?
A. He was.
Q. If he confirmed Commander Leckey’s evidence you say he too would be lying?
A. Yes.
Q. You have taken a great interest in this case since its start?
A. Yes.
Q. And the witnesses?
A. Those witnesses concerning me, yes.
Q. Some of these witnesses who don’t concern you e.g. Yvon Bastienne?
A. Yes, I contacted him.
Q. About 11th September you contacted him?
A. About, I can’t remember the exact date.
Q. Why did you approach him to give evidence in this case?
A. Because I considered his evidence essential in this case.
Q. On whose behalf yours or Guy Pool’s?
A. Guy Pool’s. The case is against Guy Pool not me.
Q. What business of yours was it to approach Bastienne?
A. I consider in view of the very serious allegations made against me in this case. I have much more interest in this case than Mr. Ashford or Wen Yam. Further I believe that the original contention of prosecution was not to have Guy Pool in that dock but me.
Q. When did you form that opinion?
A. On Tuesday after Guy Pool was arrested.
Q. You’d like to see Guy Pool acquitted?
A. I would like to see him acquitted because I believe he is not guilty.
Q. Why, what is the reason for your belief?
A. I believe that the prosecution is alleging that on 13th February I was with the accused and that I showed him how to make a bomb and that I transported him in my car. I happen to know this is not true and therefore I say he is not guilty.
Q. You say you first know this on Tuesday after his arrest?
A. I then first knew I was being involved in this case.
Q. How did you know that?
A. On Tuesday at approximately 10.30 while I was in court and there was a break, I received a phone call from Geva asking me to come up to the Training College, I went up to the Training College and she told me she had found a note in her car stating that I and her would be arrested together with other policiticians and that my house would be searched that evening. At noon Mr. Valabhji and I went to the police station to see the accused and his sister. Mr. Ashford told me that I had no right to see my clients and only Mr. Valabhji was allowed to go in. At 5 p.m. that evening my house at L’Exile, my house at Plaisance, an old house which belonged to my parent at Mont Fleuri and the S.P.U.P. office were searched. I considered that were sufficient indication that I was involved in this case. On Friday when a certain Mr. Rene Vidot came out of jail I realised how I was being implicated as a result of what he told me.
Q. Guy Pool was not your client on that Tuesday but Mr. Valabhji’s client?
A. On the Monday morning in view of the fact that I was here in court and in view of the fact that I had been informed by accused’s relatives that Mr. Valabhji and I were briefed in the case I requested Mr. Valabhji to appear alone for accused and Daphne Pool. As far as I was concerned, until Tuesday Guy Pool and Daphne Pool were still my clients.
Q. Mr. Valabhji appeared for them in the Magistrate’s Court?
A. I’ve just explained.
Q. Mr. Ashford was asked what transpired there and it was not put to him at any stage that anybody else apart from Mr. Valabhji was representing Guy Pool?
A. I was not there and I do not know what was put or not put.
Q. Do you still consider yourself a counsel in this case?
A. No I consider myself an interested party.
Q. When did you withdraw?
A. When I arrived at the police station on Tuesday at lunch time with Mr. Valabhji. I was informed by Mr. Ashford that the A.G. had given him instructions that I should not see Guy Pool and I presume the information is with A.G.
Q. Are you aware that Mr. Valabhji wrote to the Commissioner of Police and referred to Guy Pool as his client?
A. I’m not aware but I would not be surprised because Mr. Valabhji was his lawyer.
Q. Doesn’t that say I am acting on behalf of Guy Pool, Daphne Pool and Harry Bonte?
A. Yes. I believe it was on that day I was prevented by Mr. Ashford to see Guy Pool. He told me it was on the instructions of the A.G.
Q. To the knowledge of the police and the A.G. Mr. Valabhji was the lawyer appearing for the accused at that time?
A. To the knowledge of the police I was also appearing for them. I was called at the station on Saturday and when I arrived there I was told by Ashford who was specially involved in that investigation that he would not allow me to see Guy or Daphne Pool unless he Mr. Ashford came in with me and unless I spoke in English. I told him he has better check his position. He then phoned Mr. Grimette, I understand I told him that I could see Guy Pool and Daphne Pool without Mr. Ashford being present. This had never occurred to me before.
Q. Are you aware this was never put to Mr. Ashford. You did see Daphne and Guy Pool on Saturday evening?
A. The day they were arrested yes. They instructed me. Mr. Valabhji applied for bail on their behalf. I applied for bail to Mr. Ashford. I asked the police for the money of the accused and which the accused had told me was taken from him. Mr. Ashford told me this was being kept as an Exhibit. I spoke to Mr. Valabhji and he appeared for them on Monday morning. Mr. Valabhji and I went back for full instructions on Tuesday and I was prevented from seeing him. I do not know whether Mr. Valabjhi got full instructions. I did speak to Mr. Valabhji afterwards but particularly about why I had been prevented from seeing accused. I did not discuss the aspect of whether he had got full instructions. By then I realised that something funny was going on.
Q. It was then you withdraw from being counsel to accused?
A. I’ve never withdrawn. I was not even allowed to start.
Q. You interviewed Guy and Daphne on Saturday?
A. I saw them and I would have continued acting for them with Mr. Valabhji had I not been stopped. I do not consider myself counsel for Guy Pool now or Daphne Pool or Harry Bonte. I consider that I have been blamed in a serious matter and that it is my duty to work in the interest of justice.
Q. You feel it your duty to find witnesses and interview them and bring them to Mr. Valabhji or Mr. Kapila?
A. I consider that if anyone can assist this court my duty is that I should ask them what evidence they can give and then send them to the lawyer.
Q. Yvon Bastienne gave evidence and said “5 days ago I was approached to give evidence in this case. I was approached by Mr. Rene – lawyer. He told me that he had information that I was at La Gigolette on 31st/1st August. He said a fellow had seen me there. He did not mention the name to me”. Nothing there about you taking a statement from him or taking him to Mr. Valabhji. What did you do?
A. I believe it was Claude Savy who told me that. That he had seen Mr. Bastienne and Mr. Ashford at La Gigolette. Then I asked someone in my office whether they knew where this Yvon Bastienne was. I asked him whether I could see him. He came. I believe at lunch time and I really can’t recollect now whether I took a short statement from him or whether I told him to go to Mr. Valabhji and Mr. Kapila. I made sure that his evidence was passed on so that it got to this court. He was not the only witness I sent to the counsel. I sent those mostly connected with me. I remember sending about 30 to 40 people who saw me at Chez Nous that evening. I couldn’t tell all their names. I remember sending Maness, Mrs. Figaro, I mentioned the names of policemen who were there, Mrs. Frichot, Esme Jemeau.
Q. Did you talk to these witnesses after you’d sent them to counsel?
A. No I talked to them before.
Q. Not after?
A. I can’t remember.
Q. Did you mention the name of Chief Inspector Ahkon?
A. Yes.
Q. When?
A. I mentioned the name originally possibly when the case started. I gave them the gist of what Inspector Ahkon would say only recently. I saw him very recently owing to the fact that he was sick. I’ve been to his house on 2 occassions, he was not there. I saw him twice. Once he told me he would think about it and see if he remembered and once he told me what he had remembered and also that he had given a statement to the police several months ago about my being at Chez Nous that night.
Q. You’ve spoken to Daphne Pool many times during this case?
A. Yes, but not about this case.
Q. Although she is you client?
A. She is not my client.
Q. You said you know Flake Vidot?
A. I can’t remember saying that.
Q. You said he came to you?
A. He came to me yes. He spoke to me about this case. He related to me what happened to him in the cell, what he was asked to say.
Q. Why should he relate it to you is there any particular reason?
A. I should think he related it to me because he was asked to say certain things about me. I knew him before 13th February. I have known Harry Bonte for several years. I have known Daphne Pool for some time, before 13th February. I’ve have known Yvon Pool for some time, very well, before 13th February I did not know the accused apart from having seen him. I can’t recollect having ever spoken to him.
Q. If he says in the box that he has spoken to you on one occasion at his brother Yvon’s that could be true, before 13th?
A. Yes. I’ve spoken to him since i.e. on 29th July. I would not swear that I’ve not spoken to him again before that.
Q. You have been taking an interest in this case and you said you have been finding witnesses?
A. Yes I said so.
Q. You say you’re not solicitor or counsel in this case?
A. I’m not. I consider a very serious allegation has been made against me in this case. I keep in close touch with counsel in this case.
Q. Have you been to Bay Lazare to look for witnesses?
A. No. I have been to Bay Lazare at the request of Mr. Kapila to show him the Social Centre.
Q. Couldn’t Mr. Valabhji have shown it to him just as well?
A. I presume he could.
Q. Have you been to Dame Le Roi?
A. 2 years ago.
Q. You were interviewed by Commander Leckey on 23rd August?
A. He came to see me in my office. I couldn’t say it was 23rd August but around then. This case had started , the accused has appeared before some court. I would not disagree with the date 23rd August.
Q. When Mr. Leckey questioned you, did you say “I have been advised by Guy Pool’s solicitor not to answer any questions and I am not going to say anything more. Will you please leave”?
A. No, not exactly in those terms. The Supt. came to my office, cautioned me, then asked me whether I wished to make a statement. I said no. Then he asked me “were you involved with Guy Pool and Harry Bonte in a bomb explosion”. I said, “certainly was not”. Then he said “will you not make a statement” I said “I am not prepared to make a statement. What ever I know in this case I shall speak in court”. Then he said “this is not your case, this is Guy Pool’s case”. I said “well I have been advised by Guy Pool’s lawyer who has already taken a statement from me not to give a statement”.
Q. Guy Pool’s lawyer was he advising you as a client or as a witness?
A. After I had given my statement to Guy Pool’s lawyer he then told me not to make statement to the police. I presume he was acting on behalf of Guy Pool at that time.
Q. He was endeavouring to prevent you from giving evidence to the police?
A. The lawyer of Guy Pool did mention to me that subsequent to his taking statements from his witnesses the police had put pressure on them to change their statements. I do not know his real motive. This was Mr. Kapila. He mentioned one Amede Larue to me.
Q. After 23rd August?
A. When I gave the statement to Mr. Kapila he advised me not to make a statement to the police. That was before I met Mr. Leckey. It would be around 23rd August.
Q. At the time when you did not know anything about interference with witnesses and when you were not a client of Mr. Kapila the defence tried to prevent you from giving a statement to the police?
A. I do not know what was the motive of the defence. I would have advised a client of mine the same thing.
Q. Would you advise withholding evidence?
A. I would advise a client or a witness who had given me a statement not to make a statement to anybody else who tried to make him change his statement and there would be no purpose to try and get another statement unless it was for that reason.
Q. How would the police know what evidence had been given?
A. Supt. Leckey knew, I told him.
Q. How would the police know what evidence you had given unless you made a statement to them?
A. I did not see at that stage what purpose my evidence would serve to the police and in any case I did tell him the substance of what he may be interested in knowing.
Q. You realise there’s no property in a witness, you can be interviewed by either side?
A. I do. I also know that it is the legal right of anyone to refuse to make a statement to the police particularly when they are aware of the sort of dirty game the police is playing.
Q. You could have cleared this up in a statement to the police?
A. On that date police had obtained innumerable statements proving beyond doubt that I was not with Guy Pool.
Q. Couldn’t you have told this to the police?
A. I told the police I was not there.
Q. You could have told the police all you have told the court now if you had so wished?
A. Yes if I so wished I could have.
Q. You thought it was in your best interest not to make a statement?
A. I thought it was futile to tell the police what they already know.
Q. What you thought they already knew?
A. I know they already knew.
Q You have 3 houses in Seychelles?
A.. No, I have a house at L’Exile. I rented a house at Plaisance next to the chapel opposite La Misere road as correctly described I believe in the confession. Then I have the old house of my parents which is dilapidated at Mont Fleuri. Apart from the time I spent studying abroad I have lived in Seychelles.
Q. During that time you’ve had cause to use gelignite?
A. I have purchased gelignite which I have passed on to blasters to use on my behalf. I have never used it and I have never seen 15 gelignite.
Q. You have one particular man who blasts for you?
A. No I have several.
Q. You caused a lot of blasting to be done?
A. Particularly when I was building at l’Exile.
Q. Has a man called Israel Constance ever blasted for you?
A. Yes.
Q. Would it be true that in May, 1971 Israel Constance withdrew on your behalf 12 detonators, 12 sticks of gelignite and a coil of safety fuse from the police store?
A. Probably, i’m surprised not more.
Q. He has drawn more for you since then?
A. Yes. He did quite a lot of blasting.
Q. If you needed gelignite for any purpose you would have no difficulty in getting it?
A. It is possible but I would have to do without breaking my stones. I would not need it for any purpose but for blasting.
Q. You could be pretending you needed it for blasting but use it for something else?
A. I could but I would not.
Q. Have the police ever refused to hand out gelignite to you or your servants?
A. I don’t know. I’ve never gone to the police to ask for it. My servants have gone to the police to get it for me. I don’t know if they’re been refused not to my knowledge. I know there was a period when nobody was getting it. I don’t know if they applied then. When this man is blasting and needs gelignite he would go to the police and get a form and specify whatever he needed. I have to sign as owner of the land. He is a licensed blasterer. He would take his gelignite and place it in a safe box at the police station from which he would be issued whenever he needed. All I would be aware of is that I signed a particular form as owner. I would pay for the holes he has blasted. The whole of it would be done in my office as far as I’m connected with it.
By Court
There’s no way of checking if all the gelignite has been used. I believe now a policeman goes with the blasterer to the spot to supervise. That was not done before 13th February.
Q. Have you ever seen that box of gelignite?
A. At the police station yes. I have seen it open. I have not seen the instructions how to use gelignite inside.
Q. If I say there is a list of instructions inside would you agree or disagree?
A. No. There was myself, about 5 workers and the gelignite.
Q. The police could not make any check on misuse of any gelignite?
A. They could have gone up with the men but the police did not go with the men at that time.
Q. You own a boat?
A. I own 3 boats.
Q. You’re familiar with boating it is a hobby of yours?
A. It was a hobby but not so much now.
Q. You still own the boats?
A. Yes.
Q. And the equipments going with them?
A. Yes but I never had 2 aluminium buoys (witness volunteers that information)