The Guy Pool trial
P.W. 22 Commissioner of Police Mr. Fenner is recalled by the Court.
By Court:
Q. You said that on 1st August, 1972 you visited the photographic room at Central Police Station at 6.39 a.m.?
A. Correct.
Q. And you visited one Daphne Pool there in the company of Mr. Goodchild?
A. Correct.
Q. What made you pay that visit early that morning?
A. As this was an important case there was a prisoner who had just made an alleged confession I went to see if everything was alright and whether there was any complaint to be made. I had been appraised that the prisoner had made a confession. Because of that confession and the importance of the case I made up my mind to visit the prisoner in the photographic room
Q. Can you remember at what time were you informed that the prisoner had made a confession?
A. Off hand it would have been I think after 6 o’clock.
Q. According to Mr. Goodchild he received a phone call from you at approximately 10 mins to 4 a.m.?
A. Correct. I arrived at the station about 3.50 a.m. A this stage I was informed that the accused and his sister wished to make a statement. I then rang Mr. Goodchild to discuss about this matter and to discuss about security.
Q. What made you pay an early visit to the station?
A. As a result of a phone call which I received from the O.C. C.I.D. That phone call was shortly before 3.50 a.m.
Q. If you arrived at the station at 3.50 a.m. did you have the opportunity to see the accused?
A. No when I arrived I was informed they were making statement and I did not want to disturb them. I was so informed by Mr. Ashford, O.C. CI.D. I left the station shortly after 6.39 a.m. after seeing Daphne Pool. I saw the accused about 8.20 a.m.
A.G: No questions.
By Mr. Kapila:
Q. Why didn’t you tell these facts when you gave evidence?
A. I was not questioned about these facts. They did not come out.
Q. You were continuously at the station from 3.50 until 6.39 when you saw Daphne?
A. Correct.
Q. Would you agree that your evidence last time gave the impression that you arrived there at 6.39 a.m.?
A. I don’t think so. Mr. Ashford phoned me about 10.15 minutes before 3.50. I did not make a note at the time. Shortly after my arrival at the station I phone Mr. Goodchild. It would have been 3.50 or 3.55 a.m. I phoned Mr. Goodchild because he is the next senior officer or I wanted to discuss the case and matters concerning security. At this stage we discussed the case in general. Here was a person making a confession and it was likely to make a statement of what had happened. We discussed this aspect of it and the effect it would have on security. That was in my mind when I phoned him. He said he would come straight away. In fact I did not tell him about this. I only told him to come. He came about 20 minutes later or so. I would say it took me 10 – 15 minutes to go to the station. I did not put on my uniform before going there. I was in plain clothes. Mr. Goodchild was in uniform. I suggested it would be a good idea if he put on his uniform, in case, there was need for him to perform some duty. Nothing in particular, I had no particular duty in mind. There may have been necessity to take people around. I could not say. He may have had to move police officers around. It would depend on what we had to discuss about the case and for security in general. At that time I did not think it necessary to put on my uniform.
I left the station after visiting the photographic room. I went home. I changed into my uniform. When we visited Daphne Pool one of us was in uniform. Then we visited Guy Pool both of us were in uniform. I saw Guy Pool for the first time in the cell at 8.20 a.m. I was with Mr. Goodchild. That was the first time I went to the cells on that day.
One had to think in terms of public reaction. It had nothing to do with the arrest of Mr. Rene or anything to do with him. A man and his sister were to make confessions in connection with a bomb explosion. We had to think of public reaction.
Q. Following morning (2nd) about 7 a.m. was it to your knowledge that Mr. Bonte had been arrested?
A. Yes. I did not go to the station.
Q. Where were you between 3.50 and 6.39?
A. In my headquarters.
Q. At 6.39 had you read the statement of either of them?
A. No.
Q. Was Mr. Ashford with you during all that time?
A. Not all the time. He came in once possibly twice. He did not stay for more than 5 minutes on each occasion. Mr. Goodchild was with me all the time. I do not recollect his leaving me. There was a special branch officer too, Mr. Mott. When Mr. Ashford joined us there were the 4 of us. I have no recollection of what time Mr. Mott arrived but I think he arrive about the time I did. I called him. He was there the whole time. He did not accompany me to Daphne or Guy. He was not in uniform. He does not wear a uniform. I summoned him for reason of security. I expected a public reaction to the case in general. We had to plan that if anything went wrong we would have to be ready for it . It did occur to me that one of us senior officers should be present at the taking of the confession but when we got there it was already under way and it would not be right to have it started all over again. We did discuss it but we realised it would be unwise to stop the confession being taken and it would be better to let the man who was taking it to continue. At this stage the statement was being taken and there was a witness. There was no necessity to send in somebody else.
I would say it is incorrect that Daphne’s statement started at 4.15. I understand it started before that.
Q. You were not an independent witness visiting the prisoner that morning. You gave a totally distorted impression?
A. I don’t think so. I was asked at what time I visited a person I said so. I was not asked what time I arrived. I do not know what evidence has been given by Mr. Ashford I was not in court.
No further questions. Witness released.
P.W. 19 Dr. McGregor recalled by Court.
By Court:
Q. You said that on 1st August you examined Guy and Daphne Pool. Did you make a physical examination of them?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you be more precise?
A. I made as far as I could an assessment of their mental condition. I did not examine their hearts. I had them stripped and I examined them from top to bottom. I examined Guy Pool’s face.
Q. If a person has received a violent back hand slap on the side of the face to the extent that he sustains a cut under the lip what would you expect to see from your examination?
A. You would expect the lip to be swollen. You could expect some bleeding. It might damage the teeth.
Q. Would you expect mark on the cheek or the face?
A. This depends on several things. Assuming the time interval was 12 hours after it depends on the severity of the slap. With a violent blow you would expect mark on the cheek. It depends on the hardness or softness of the hand.
(Daphne Pool is called)
I know this lady. I examined her, had her stripped except for her brassieres and panties.
Q. If she had received 2 hard slaps on each side of the face during the night of 31st/1st August what would you expect to see on her face on the day you examined her?
A. Only if these were very severe you won’t necessarily expect to find any marks after an interval. In the absence of deep tissue damage and bruising one would not expect to see any marks. In the case of a severe slap one would expect to see some swelling. It depends on the hardness of the hand of the person giving the slap and the texture of the part receiving the slap.
Q. Suppose she had received 2 very hard slaps from Mr. Ashford in her face what would you expect to see?
A. I don’t think I can further qualify my reply. If I was asked generally to say I would say that with Miss Pool’s colour and texture of the skin I might expected to see some swelling or bruising. I can’t give a definite yes or no.
Q. When you saw her on the 1st did you have a close look of her?
A. Yes. I looked at her eyes and general appearance. She had been crying. I found nothing exceptional. There was nothing to be said that had injured her face. That was late afternoon. I was asked to come and see them for several reasons. They were complaining about food and being housed in bad condition. I don’t think if at that time any mention had been made of ill treatment. It was the Commissioner of Police or his officer who asked me to see them.
By A.G.: If the face of Miss Pool had puffed or swollen as a result of the slaps how long would it take to go down.
A. If there was no serious injury one would expect it to go down in 24 hours.
By Mr. Kapila:
Q. It’s not possible to be definite about time variations?
A. I could give a range of time. It would depend on hardness of slap and texture of skin.
I knew Daphne before that day. I was called by the Commissioner of Police or his office. He told me to come and see about the food and the housing complaints.
No further questions.
Witness released.
D.W. 6 Yvon Bastienne recalled
By Mr. Grimmett
I gave evidence the other day in this court. I said that on 31st July 1972 I went first to Marie’s Bar with James Pillay and after having a drink there we went to Coco Rouge at Anse Aux Pins and we had something to eat there. We had some cold food from the fridge. We finished eating at about 8 p.m. and we sat there and had one small beer until 11.45 p.m. There were lots of people there. It was not a busy night. People were chatting. We did not buy any meal because the owner said he did not have any meals. He gave it to me free of charge. I know Mr. Adeline the owner of Coco Rouge (identifies person giving his name as Kitson Adeline). I am a friend of Kitson Adeline.
Q. I put it to you that your evidence on oath is an issue of lies in so far as you did not go to Coco Rouge that night?
A. It’s the truth. I went there with my friend that night.
Q. I put it to you the Coco Rouge was not opened as a restaurant that night?
A. I can’t tell. The owner told us the restaurant was not ready. He offered me some cold meal. We had it together. I was present at the Coco Rouge that night. Maybe Mr. Adeline does not know if he say I was not there. I was there. He phoned a taxi for us. This is not a lie. The taxi that brought us there had said he would come and collect us but he failed to do so. We phoned for another one. I am not misleading the court. I swore to tell the truth.
Mr. Kapila: No questions
Witness excused
D.W.2 Ernest Christopher Athanasius (recalled)
I gave evidence here before. I said I went with my wife to play bingo on 31st July, 1972 and we were there until the end of the game, roughly midnight. After that we went home and we went to bed. I did not go anywhere after leaving the bingo that night. I am sure of that. I know Mr. Waye Hive (identifies person giving his name as Benjamin Waye Hive). He was not playing bingo with me that evening. I remember being with him playing bingo twice since I’ve been here but on that night I was not with him. That evening I did not go to the Rendez Vous Bar with him. He lives at
My wife likes salted fish. My wife did not eat salted fish at Mr. Waye Hive’s place in the early morning of 1st August. She did not take any home to eat. I did not go to Mr Waye Hive’s house at
Q. What time did you leave
A. I did not go there at all that evening.
(At this stage Mr. Benjamin Waye Hive is asked to leave the court room)
Mr. Kapila:
At the start of cross-examination of this witness I asked for Mr. Waye Hive to be out and my friend said he would not be called as he had no right to call rebutting evidence and he would be bound by answers of the witness. He has put the whole cross-examination and illicitated answers in presence of Waye Hive. He has cross-examined witness on a basis that it is cross-examination on credit. If my friend has right to call rebutting evidence I must have right to call other rebutting evidence too. We will have to go into the matter again. Issues must be limited for cross-examination on credit. Prosecution had clear idea of what this witness was going to say. They did not ask for adjournment and ask for the witness to be stood down so that they could get further instructions before his cross-examination. Rebuttal evidence is only permitted when no human ingenuity could be foreseen.
A.G: If at the end of cross-examination of this witness I consider it necessary to call rebutting evidence I will apply.
Witness:
I did not see Mr. Waye Hive at all that evening. I was not drinking with him at 8 p.m. and with a man called Georges Robert. I do not know a man called Georges Robert. I have a brother called Georges Athanasius. I did not go to fetch my brother that evening to play bingo. I have fetched him on one evening to play bingo. I cannot tell the date but I have. He was not around that night. I did not join my brother and Mr. Waye Hive that evening. Mr. Waye Hive did not join my brother and I and we did not go in my car to the Rendez Vous to play bingo. I went to play bingo that night. I went with my wife, no one else. I did not go with Mr. Waye Hive. I had a beer or two but mixed in a shandy. There was no last round of drinks bought. I did not go to Mr. Waye Hive’s place after that. We did not go there because my wife likes salted fish. I did not go there at all that evening. What I am saying is the truth.
Mr. Kapila: No questions
Witness released.
A.G.: Mr. Ashford is being recalled so that he may be cross-examined by my friend on matters which were not put to him when he was in witness box. I will also be calling Mr. Wen Yam and Miss Stravens for the same purpose.
Court: Leave granted.
P.W. 15 Supt. David Ashford
A.G.: I have no questions. I offer him for cross-examination.
Mr. Kapila: I am asking question which I could not previously ask at all.
Q. Are you aware that this trial within a trial was adjourned for 3 days and prosecution intimated it would be recalling you and Miss Stravens?
A. I understood I would be called back in the trial within a trial.
Q. When it was resumed there were 2 duty officers called and the owner of La Gigolette?
A. Yes.
Q. Are you aware of the reason why you were not recalled.?
A. I don’t think so. I was aware that I would be recalled at some stage.
Q. In the interval you were very active about this matter?
A. I am still active. I am the investigating officer.
Q. You brought Mr. Martinez to Court?
A. I walked from the police station to court with him. He is a friend of mine. On this
Q. During the night of 31st July/1st August we have heard the Commissioner and his Deputy and the special Branch Officer were all at the station?
A. They were sir. I went into their room on two occasions. I did not say so in my earlier evidence.
Q. On that night Mr. Harry Bonte was not in the cells?
A. No.
Q. Next morning we’ve heard the C.M. and a white lawyer arrived and saw Mr. Denousse?
A. I was not at the station when the C.M. arrived. I was given to understand later that he came. He had no lawyer with him. I know nothing about that matter. I was approached by the Immigration Department by an officer by the name of Germain. Nobody contacted me and I did not contact anyone on Tuesday.
Denousse was arrested by an Immigration Officer and brought to the station on Monday. The police was requested to investigate an allegation of his illegal entry to the country. I instructed one of my police officers to undertake the inquiry. I did not initiate the coming of a lawyer to see him or the C.M.
Late on Tuesday I became disturbed because Denousse had been in custody at the station for 24 hours. I phoned Government House to the office of the Immigration Officer, Mr. Owen Hoareau. This was about 4 – 4.15 p.m. I explained to Mr. Hoareau the position that the Immigration had arrested a man who was in custody at the station for more than 24 hours. I asked him to regularise the position by either releasing him or giving us a detention order. I believe he was released sometime shortly after. I did not make a record. I knew he was subsequently released.
On 17th August I took a statement from Denousse. I have heard the allegations which the two Vidots have made against me. They are totally untrue. I know certain complaints were made at the police station and I have heard of some allegation while I was in court. I read of the other allegations in the Bulletin. I did not ill treat them in any way. I deny that Mr. Vidot threatened to bite my nose off.
Re-examination:
I did not mention seeing Mr. Fenner, Mr. Goodchild and Mr. Mott at the station because I did not think it particularly important. I was not asked about it.
No further questions.
.Witness released.
P.W. 16 P.C. Dominic Wen Yam
A.G.: I offer him for cross-examination.
Cross-examined:
I gave evidence about taking a statement from accused on the morning of 1st August. I was not asked to read out the statement while I was giving evidence. I was not asked to produce it. I left it in Court in an envelope (shown Exhibit BB).
Mr. Kapila: Now we have it and I’ll put a few questions about it.
Q. You said Mr. Ashford told you how to take the statement?
A. Yes.
Q. See the caution you’ve written at the top?
A. Yes.
Q. I put it to you that you copied all that from a card on which it was typed?
A. No.
Q. I put it to you that you had 3 sheets of paper on which the statement that was wanted from accused was typed?
A. No.
(asked to look through statement)
Q. There is not one place where you had to cross out a sentence or a word except for 2 words which were overwritten?
A. Yes. The words “qui mon peur” have not been written over. The ink, I expect, had overflowed the pen. The writing between “mon” and “peur” is my initials because I had to do that. I did not initial any other part of the statement.
I am aware of what the accused has said about how I got the statement from him.
Q. You are aware of what he has said of the way in which you got his statement?
A. No, I read from the bulletin. I don’t know what he in fact said in court. I read the bulletin. It is all against what I have said in court. I could have discussed this case, I don’t remember. I was very interested about what the accused said about me in court. So many people have told me what he said. It is not true. My evidence is the truth. I did not hear that Claude Vidot said in court that he kicked me. Nobody told me about that. He never kicked me. I did not receive any kick from him.
Q.In the statement you refer throughout to Albert Rene?
A. Yes.
Q. I put it to you that the accused would never call him Albert Rene, he calls him Mr. Rene?
A. No he called him Albert Rene each time.
Q. You are saying that after the caution the accused started his statement like this “On Monday 7th February, 1972 at about 3.30 p.m. I went to Point Larue”?
A. Yes.
Q. Without you questioning him?
A. No, this is how it started.
Q. I put it to you that you are a scrupulous little liar?
A. I am not. The statement was recorded as accused said it.
Q. The statement reads “On Sunday 13th February I was not working” (witness asked to read. He does so)
A. Dimanche le 13 fevrier 1972 mon pas ti travail (Sunday 13th February, 1972 I did not work).
Q. He said that without being questioned?
A. Yes.
Q. Without you dictating it to him?
A. No.
Q. Who was switching on and off the tape recorder?
A. There was no tape recorder in the office.
Q. Do you see the reference in the statement to Bonte?
A. Yes.
Q. It only says Bonte there is no first names?
A. Yes.
Q. It also refers to one Flake Vidot.
A. Yes.
Mr. Kapila: I invite the court to read the statement for purpose of trial within a trial.
(statement read aloud by witness. It is translated simultaneously by Court Interpreter).
Q. Last time in cross-examination I asked you about 3 typed sheets and you denied seeing them?
A. I did.
Q. I suggest you made some alterations in these typed sheets after discussing with accused?
A. There were no typed sheets at all.
Q. I put it to you that between Saturday and Monday you had a number of conversations with accused at the police station?
A. I saw the accused when I took him up to the C.I.D. office to be charged. I did not have any conversations with him.
Q. I suggest you asked him details about his going to Bay Lazare?
A. No.
Q. On Monday evening you and Miss Stravens told the accused there were lots of evidence against him?
A. No, I never told him anything.
Q. And asked him why he did not agree to say that Mr. Rene made the bomb and sent him to plant it at Reef Hotel?
A. I deny that.
Q. And you used words to indicate to him that Mr. Ashford is a dangerous man?
A. I deny it.
Q. You remember Mr. Ashford showing a revolver to accused?
A. You asked me that last time, I denied it.
I did not see the breakfast which accused had next morning. I did not see Daphne Pool being ill treated by Mr. Ashford. I did not see him pull her hair and shaking her head or slapping her twice. I did not put my hand over her mouth. I remember arresting Rene Vidot. I do not remember stopping down to remove his flip flops. I did not take away his tobacco and matches. It was done by the N.C.O in charge of the station. I did not do it. I heard that he wanted to see a doctor. The request was made to the N.C.O. I was there. I do not quite remember what the N.C.O. told him. I think he phoned the doctor for him. I never told him that just now he would see Dr. Ah Moye. I remember he was taken up to Mr. Ashford’s office and questioned. He was not questioned about any bomb explosion. He was asked whether he was Flake. He declined to answer. He was cautioned. In my presence Mr. Ashford never told him anything to Rene Vidot about a bomb. If he had said so I would have heard.
On Wednesday I did not go to see Rene Vidot or told him that he was stupid in not accepting Mr. Ashford’s offer. I never told him anything.