The guy pool trial

DOWN MEMORY LANE

The Guy Pool Trial

Last week we continued with the examination and cross-examination of Claude Vidot, who was originally mistaken by the police as the person called “Flake” and thus arrested his brother instead. Vidot claimed that the police wanted him to say that it was Mr. Rene who placed the bomb at the Reef Hotel. Claude Vidot also claimed that police constable Flory Stravens caressed him while he was in detention in a police cell. He admitted that Mr. Rene came to visit him while in detention. This week we follow the evidence of Daphne Pool, the sister of Guy Pool.

D.W. 7 Daphne Pool

Daphne Pool. I work at Reef Hotel. I remember the bomb explosion at Reef Hotel in February this year. On 16th February I made a statement to the police S/I Dingwall about this explosion. The contents of the statement was the truth. Later I was interviewed by officers from Scotland Yard. I repeated to them what I had told Dingwall before. I said that on the night of the explosion I had been working but I had gone home when I heard the explosion. I was in bed at the time. From what I heard I thought it was a rock that had fallen on the house and rolled off the roof, as if someone had thrown a rock on the house . I related to the Scotland Yard Officer what I told C.I.D. Dingwall. The Scotland Yard Officer wrote down what I told him.

At that time I lived with Stanley Hermitte. On 13th July I had a quarrel with him as a result of which we separated. We both went to the police station. I looked for someone to come and stay with me.

On 29th July the police searched my house and I was arrested. Between the 13th and 29th July Stanley did not leave me alone. He always pretended to visit the children but he came to pester my life (movi mon la vie). I was arrested by Mr. Ashford. He told me why he was arresting me. He told me he had evidence against me as being an accomplice in the explosion. That was not true but it was what he told me.

I thought that Stanley had gone and related a lot of lies against me because he had said he would kill me and he would do a lot of things to the detriment of my family.

I was taken to the police station at Anse Aux Pins and later on to Central Police Station. I saw Guy sitting down at the Station. I did not make a statement on that Saturday. Guy and I were locked in different cells and at a good distance from each other. Only Mr. Rene came to see me, he came a bit late, I mean Mr. Albert Rene. I told him something. He asked me why I was there. I told him I had been arrested by Mr. Ashford in connection with the bomb explosion and that I did not know anything in it and he should try and do something to have me released. He then told me he was ill and he would go away but he would come back on Monday and see me and try and take steps about my release. I told him to find out with whom my children were. I told him that it was because I had left Stanley and he was looking for a way to kill me and he did not get the opportunity.

On Saturday, Sunday and Monday I was not questioned, I was questioned during the night of Monday. I was sleeping in my cell in the middle of the night. I felt someone touching me and asked me to get up. I opened my eyes and I saw Miss Stravens beside me. She told me that Mr. Ashford wanted to see me and to come with her. I went with her. She took me to Mr. Ashford’s office upstairs. I saw Mr. Ashford. He was with Wen Yam.

Mr. Ashford asked me “on the night of the explosion did Guy come to your place and did he tell you that Mr. Rene had given him the bomb to plant in the hotel”. Mr. Ashford questioned me in English. I did not reply. Then Wen Yam asked me in creole and I replied. I said “no that night Guy did not come to my place and I did not see him at all”. Mr. Ashford spoke in English and it was translated in creole by Wen Yam He said “It is true, Guy did come because Stanley has told me that Guy did come”. I said no. He came to where I was sitting and said “don’t tell me no” and he slapped me in my face. It was a hard slap.

I shouted out and I told him I would tell my lawyer the next day. I shouted “ayoyo” loud. I shouted twice. Wen Yam told him that I said I would tell my lawyer next day. Mr. Ashford said to me “what lawyer?” He caught my hair from the front of my head, he shook my head and took me towards the wall. He continued shaking my head and banged it against the wall. He continued shaking my head and banged it against the wall but not hard. He held my hair hard with both hands. I shouted out “ayoyo mon maman, mon pou mort”. Mr. Ashford put his hand over my mouth. I removed his hand and Wen Yam put his hand over my mouth. I continued shouting and Mr. Ashford got hold of me and pushed me towards Miss Stravens and told her to take me downstairs. She took me to my cell. I sat on a bunk, I was crying. Miss Stravens went out for a short while and then returned. She sat next to me on the bunk and put her hand on my shoulder and said “are you still crying, do you think you would be beaten and be subjected to all this ill treatment when it would be easy for you. You would be released and you could see your children”. I asked her how that was possible. She said “agree to what Mr. Ashford has told you and make a statement like Stanley did”. I said “I can’t say what Mr. Ashford told me because I would blame my brother in saying that he came to my house when in fact he not did not come to my house at all.”

Miss Stravens said “How could you blame you brother? Stanley has made a statement and if you and Guy make a statement like he has the three of you will not be charged you will become crown witnesses in a case against Mr. Rene”. She asked “Do you agree”. I said “if Guy agrees to it then I will agree also”. That was in the middle of the night, I said “what statement can I make when I do not know exactly what Stanley has said”. She said “don’t worry, I’ll come back in a few minutes”. She left me and went out. She came back with 3 sheets of paper. She said “Do you want me to read Stanley’s statement to you”. I said “yes”. She read quite a long part of it and asked me if I understood. I said yes and she continued reading. After she finished reading she asked me “have you understood”. I said “yes”. She said “remember it well”. She said “go and wash your face and wipe it and you can lie down on your bunk. I will go and speak to Guy and tell him about if and if he agrees I will come back and tell you”. She went out. I did as she said.

A bit later I heard Guy talking to me. I did not quite understand what he said but I heard him say “I’m going to make a statement otherwise we will die here”. I did not see Guy again then. I lay down. A long time afterwards Miss Stravens returned to my cell. She said “Guy has agreed, come with me you will make your statement”. I went out with her. Mr. Ashford was walking with Guy ahead of us. We followed them upstairs where we met Wen Yam. Mr. Ashford spoke to him. At the offices, Mr. Ashford took Guy further on. I was put in a room and remained with Miss Stravens. There was a small bed in the room. Miss Stravens told me to sit down and wait for her. She returned shortly afterwards. She told me “Mr. Lau Tee would come and take down your statement. Be sure you don’t tell Mr. Lau Tee what Mr. Ashford has told you and don’t tell him I have read Stanley’s statement to you. I have no right to do that but I have done it so that you can make your statement and you’ll be released to all your children and if you tell about what Mr. Ashford will know and he will beat you again. I told her “yes I promise that I will not tell at all”. She asked me if I would like her to read it over to me again. I said yes. She read it over to me again and told me to remember it . I said yes and she went out.

A fair while later Mr. Lau Tee came into my room and said he has come to take down my statement. I said yes and I went with him to another office and I made a statement to him. He wrote it down. There was a woman there but I do not know if she was a police woman. Mr. Lau Tee conducted himself properly. I asked him to write the statement down. He did so. I remembered some of what Miss Stravens has told me and I told Mr. Lau Tee. At one stage I forgot and I told him “Stanley knows all about it, ask him and he will tell you”. He wrote this down. He made me sign the statement which I did. He took me out to the room from which I’d been taken before Miss Stravens was there and she took me back to the room where there is a small bed.

This is the statement. This is my signature on it. I can read but I can’t read this handwriting. I spoke in creole and he wrote in creole. The signatures on it is mine.

(Statement read out by Court Interpreter and it is simultaneously translated into English by him). This is what I said to Mr. Lau Tee. (Statement produced by Mr. Kapila admitted and marked Exhibit CC (No objection)

Miss Stravens told me to lie down and she would make some coffee. There was a small kettle with boiling water next to the bed. She pulled out the plug and made some coffee. She asked me if I wanted some but I did not want any. She made 3 cups. She took 2 away and then she came back for the third one.

Next morning I was still in bed. I saw two gentlemen in police uniform. At first I did not know their names. After that I inquired from Miss Stravens who told me. I did not tell them that I had been beaten up the night before. That Tuesday morning I had breakfast on the verandah near our cells. There were different things, bacon, eggs, coffee, lettuce, cheese sausages and many different things. That day Mr. Rene came to see me. I don’t remember whether it was before or after breakfast but he did come. The doctor came to see me in the afternoon, Dr. McGregor. I was not feeling too bad, my head was aching a bit and my eyes were burning. I did not ask for Dr. McGregor. I had asked for Dr. AhMoye. I did not make any complaints to Dr. McGregor except for two scratches from rash on my arm which I showed him.

Wednesday morning I saw a small black man sitting outside. I did not know him. I asked Miss Stravens and she told me his name was Bonte. I asked her why he was there and she told me that he was with Mr. Rene when they planted the bomb. On Thursday I saw Flake Vidot. I knew him. I asked Miss Stravens and she told me that he too had been arrested as an accomplice of Mr. Rene in connection with the bomb explosion. Next morning I saw Claude Vidot. I knew him. I inquired and Miss Stravens told me he was involved with Mr. Rene in the bomb incident. I asked her when would I be released as I’d been told. She told me that when Mr. Rene would be arrested I would then be released and that the Governor had asked England to send out Scotland Yard Officers to arrest Mr. Rene because here he could not be arrested as the people would revolt.

One morning when we were outside I did not see Flake. I asked Miss Stravens where he was and she told me that he had been released. I asked her why she told me that they had mistaken him for his brother. During that period I was treated very well ever since I was beaten. Miss Stravens gave me whatever she had with her when she passed by my cell.

One day Mr. Ashford came and told me I would appear before the Magistrate and later on before the Supreme Court, that I would not be asked to plead at the Magistrates’ Court but I would be asked to plead before the Supreme Court and that I should plead guilty, after which I would be released and Mr. Rene would be arrested. At the Magisrates’ Court, the Magistrate did not tell us anything. We stood and waited. We were told we would be transferred to the prisons. I was not released. Mr. Ashford took me back to the Central Police Station first. He said “tomorrow you’ll be taken to the Supreme Court, you’ll plead guilty after which Mr. Rene will be arrested and you’ll be released”. Next day I was taken to Supreme Court. Mr. Sauzier told us not to plead, to take us back to the prisons and to come back next day. I saw Mr. Rene in court wearing his wig and he was joking. I sat wondering why we were not released. I got angry because I was wondering why I’d been brought here to go back to the prisons and I was not released. Next morning I was taken to Supreme Court. I pleaded not guilty and I was released on bail.

The statement Exhibit CC is not true. I did as Miss Stravens asked me to do. The statement I gave to Dingwall was different and it was true.

(shown a document). This is not my signature on it. I thumb printed it. (statement read out by Court Interpreter). This is what I told the police. He asked me questions and I answered. This is what I told Dingwall. I put my thumb print on the statement. I identify my thumb print. (Statement translated into English by Court Interpreter).

(Statement produced by Mr. Kapila, admitted and marked Exhibit DD. No objection).

Cross-examined: I do not remember ever being convicted. It is possible that I have been convicted.

Q. Have you or have you not been convicted?

A. I don’t remember. It is possible I’ve been convicted but I don’t remember.

Q. For stealing on 12th May, 1961?

A. I don’t remember.

Q. For criminal trespass on 20th February 1962?

Mr. Kapila : It is unfair for my friend to put these questions to the witness.

A.G: Cross on evidence 3rd edition p.219. I intend calling evidence to prove the previous convictions which are denied.

Witness:

A. I don’t remember. I can’t say yes or no.

Q. For threatening violence on 24th February, 1962?

A. I still don’t remember.

Q. On 2nd December, 1966 for common nuisance?

A. I don’t remember.

Q. Do you remember any of your convictions?

A. No it’s too long ago.

Q. Have you ever been convicted by a court?

A. I don’t remember. I am 26 years old.

Q. The last p.c. I’m putting to you is 5½ years ago, don’t you remember?

A. Perhaps yes, perhaps no. I don’t remember all that. I don’t remember back 5½ years ago.

Q. I put it to you, you don’t have a good memory?

A. I don’t know.

Q. Have you ever discussed this case with anybody?

A. No.

Q. Have you discussed your evidence?

A. No.

Q. Have you ever talked about this case to anybody at all?

A. Only to Mr. Kapila. I told him I was charged although I’m innocent.

Q. That’s all you told him?

A. Yes.

Q. Nothing else?

A. Then I gave him a statement. I told him and he wrote it down. That was the next day after I was released on bail from prisons. It was Saturday. I was released on Friday. I made my statement outside the prison. When Mr. Kapila came to the prison he asked me whether I was guilty and I told him no. That was all I told him. I gave him a statement on Saturday. I did not speak to him again after that. He just passes by when he comes to court. He asks me how I am and I say I’m well. I’ve talked to Mr. Valabhji about this case. I have told the truth when I say I did not speak to anybody. Mr. Valabhji is my lawyer, if you had asked me I would have told you. He came to see me when I was in the cell.

Mr. Kapila: witness should not be questioned on these lines.

Court: It is material on credibility

Mr. Kapila: Cross on evidence 2nd edition page 242.

Court: Question allowed.

Q. Did you make any complaint to Mr. Valabhji?

A. No.

Q. Why?

A. Because Miss Stravens told me that Mr. Ashford asked me not to say and I was afraid they would beat me again and I did not want to be beaten as I’d been beaten before.

Q. Why did you complain to Kapila?

A. Because after I was taken to the prisons I found out that I had been fooled. I saw Mr. Rene in court, he was joking and he did not look worried at all. They had told me he was going to be arrested.

A.G: I apply for summons to be issued for D.W. 2 Athanasius and D.W. 6 Bastienne. I want to recall them to question them further on information which the crown has just received and which was not available at the time.

Mr. Kapila: I oppose this application

Court: On the statement made to the court by the A.G. I allow the application. Summons to be issued to the 2 witnesses.

D.W. 7 Daphne Pool

Cross-examination continues.

Q. You said Miss Stravens came to your cell and asked you to make a statement along certain lines?

A. She came to my cell and told me Mr. Ashford wanted to see me and she took me upstairs.

Q. You said she told you if you and Guy make a statement like Stanley’s the three of you would not be charged?

A. Yes.

Q. This was at what time on what day?

A. On Monday in the middle of the night.

Q. She said you would not be charged?

A. Yes.

Q. Had you not already been charged before the Magistrates that morning?

A. Yes, but then she said so and said that Mr. Rene would be charged and we would be released. That’s the truth. Miss Stravens said Mr. Rene would be charged and we would be released. Mr. Ashford slapped me first on the right side of my face and the 2nd one on the left. He slapped me with the palm of his hand. I do not know whether he is right or left handed. The right slap was to the right of my face. He slapped me both times with open palm. That’s the truth. If he did not slap me I would not have shouted. Mr. Ashford did hit me. (witness asked to turn round to A.G. She does so).

Q. If I were to slap you with my open palm I would use my right hand to the left side of your face?

A. When he slapped me on the right side of my face, he stood to one side of me. When he slapped me on the left side of my face he stood in front of me. When he slapped me first he stood slightly to my left and he faced me. The next time he stood more to my right and he slapped me. I do not know which hand he used. He slapped me, how could I know which hand he used.

Q. Its physically impossible to slap you the way you say he did?

A. If he came here and slapped me again you will see how he did.

By Court: He slapped me hard, first on the right side of my face and 2nd time on the left side.

By A.G: He pulled my hair. I was not wearing a hair band then (witness is wearing a hair band). I had a hair band on the day I was arrested. The police took it away. I stayed without it. Even without a band my hair stays back. He held my hair with both hands. I shouted and tried to remove his hands. He put his hand over my mouth. He banged my head against the wall but not hard. I could not see if there were any bruises on my head but it was feeling hot and hurting. When he first slapped me I shouted “ayoyo mon maman” but after he got hold of my hair I kept on shouting. I thought he would kill me. It hurt me and he shook my head. When he pressed my head against the wall it made it hot and painful. I did not complain to the doctor. Miss Stravens had told me not to say anything and I was afraid I would get the same beating again. I was brought back to my cell. I did not go to look into Guy’s cell. I went to my own cell. I was crying. I was not shouting. A few minutes later Miss Stravens came to see me. She told me to go and wash my face which I did. Miss Stravens came twice. Then I saw Guy passing and he talked to me. He told me he was going to make a statement or else we would die there. He did not come to my cell. He stood outside and he looked in through the grill. I saw him. I was lying down I was not asleep. I was awake.

Q. That’s not what you said in chief?

A. This is what I said. I was lying down.

Q. You said in chief “later on I heard Guy talking to me. I did not quite understand what he said”?

A. I saw him when he was talking to me. I did not see him again when he stopped talking to me. I next saw him with Mr. Ashford walking ahead of us at the time Miss Stravens came to fetch me from the cell. Guy’s back was turned to me but I know him he is my brother. He knows me.

Q. Guy said here that he saw your face then and it looked terrible?

A. What has Guy said I don’t know. I’m saying what I know. If he turned to see me I don’t know. I saw him walking ahead of me. That was after I’d washed my face.

Q. At 6.39 that morning you were visited by 2 gentlemen in uniform?

A. Yes.

Q. Their evidence is that your face then did not show any sign of distress or of recent weeping?

A. I had stopped weeping when they came. I was lying on the bed. I did not see my face to know if it was swollen or not. Those who have seen should know. I do not know whether my face was swollen when they came to see me but I was beaten. My eyes were burning and my face felt heavy. They never asked me whether I had any complaint to make. They asked me “are you all right” and I said yes. Miss Stravens had told me Mr. Ashford had asked her to tell me not to say that I had been beaten that night and so I did not tell them. The 2 officers did not tell me who they were. They spoke in English together and I did not understand what they said. I understand English. They asked me if I was all right and I said yes. If they told me who they were I did not hear. At first I did not know them but I asked Miss Stravens and she said they were Mr. Goodchild and Mr. Fenner. I do not know whether Mr. Goodchild is the Deputy Commissioner. He came to visit me in my cell after. I did not say anything to him because Miss Stravens had said Mr. Ashford did not want me to say anything and I was afraid I would be beaten. I showed the rash on my arm to Dr. McGregor but I did not tell him that my head was painful. My head was painful at that time but Miss Stravens had told me not to say and would give me some tablets. She gave me 2 tablets. My eyes were burning and there was heaviness in my face. Although my eyes were good I could not see my face.

Q. I put it to you, your evidence is learned off by heart?

A. It is the truth I have to know it.. I remember everything I did.

Q. Have you refreshed your memory on this evidence recently?

A. No I remember it all the time.

Q. Have you refreshed your memory from a written statement or in conversation?

A. No one reminded me. It happened to me in the cell. The one who beat me knows it. No one knows about my evidence. I know it because of what they did to me. I told it to Mr. Kapila. He wrote it down and he went away. I see him when I come to court everyday. He was at Chez Nous on that Saturday when he took my statement. I saw him sitting alone on a chair at a table. I gave him my statement. I spoke in creole and my brother translated it into English, my brother Yvon. He came with me. Mr. Kapila was alone. In my house I have not spoken to anybody about my evidence. On 13th September I did not see Mr. Kapila and Mr. Rene.

Q. Did Mr. Kapila and Mr. Rene come to your house?

A. Not in my house?

Q. Did they come to see you at all?

A. I don’t remember.

By Court: The Saturday following the day I was first released on bail I gave a statement to Mr. Kapila at Chez Nous. After that date I do not remember seeing Mr. Kapila and Mr. Rene.

By A.G:

Q. You don’t remember or they did not come?

A. I don’t remember.

Q. You remember 13th September, last Wednesday?

A. Yes.

Q. Did Mr. Kapila and Mr. Rene see you then?

A. No.

Q. Did they ever see you last week?

A. I saw them here outside the Court.

Q. At your house on 13th September. Mr.Kapila and Mr. Rene saw you.

A. No. In the mornings Mr. Kapila passes by me and he asks me how I am. Mr. Rene did not speak to me. He speaks to me but not here in court. I speak to a lot of people outside the court. I am in the habit of talking. I know how to speak. I talk of my own problems. This case concerns me not other people. I talked to Flake Vidot of my own problems not about this case. The A.G. saw me talking to Claude Vidot not Flake. I asked him how he was and he said he was all right.

Q. You remember every detail of your evidence here?

A. Because it’s true what they did to me and I have to remember it.

Q. But you can’t remember whether you spoke to Mr. Kapila and Mr. Rene?

A. I said no. Mr. Rene did not come to my place at all. I did not see him last week. All the previous convictions you asked me are 10 years ago. What I’m relating here happened 9 months ago. I heard you say this morning it happened in 1962. I don’t remember about1966. I have a lot of worries. I have to work and feed my children. If something happened a long time ago do not remember. It is not everything I remember. I tell what I remember. I am the sister of accused.

Q. Did you speak to him after the so called beatings in the cells?

A. He passed my cell and told me he was going to make a statement or otherwise we would die there. I have not spoken to him again after that until now. Not even once. I did not speak of our private affairs. When the cell was opened for me to go outside I went outside. When it was shut I was inside. There is a verandah. We are made to sit apart at distances and we cannot speak to one another. We are just there like dumb people. As from the time I was beaten I was treated very well at the cells.

I did not have a tape recorder with me I do not know if Guy had one and whether he played music. He knows if he had one. Our cells was about that distance apart (shows distance estimated 45ft). There were Guy’s cell, Claude’s, Flake’s, Bonte’s and mine. We sat outside at distances from one another but there were policeman with us and we did not speak. Guy did not tell me good morning. He looked at me. I looked at him, just like dummies. There was a radio on a table. I don’t know to whom it belonged. I listened to the radio. I sat at one end and Guy sat at the other end.

Q. Claude Vidot in his evidence said that you Bonte and Guy were sitting outside together at one stage and listening to the radio?

A. We were sitting down but at distances from one another and in the company of policemen. I do not know about Guy having a tape recorder in his cell. I did not go to his cell. I heard music but I did not know where it came from. I do not have a tape recorder at home. If Guy has said that, he has lied. If he has said that I have a tape recorder he has lied. I do not have a tape recorder. My sister has one.

Q. I put it to you Mr. Ashford never threatened or beat you?

A. Here he is. He’s the one who slapped me on each side of my face.

Q. He never told you to plead guilty?

A. He did, here he is. I did shout out. Ask him If I did not shout out when he hit me.

Q. At least 5 p.cs have given evidence here and said they did not hear any scream that night?

A. They are all pupils of Mr. Ashford. They will not displease him. He is their boss. I am satisfied with the way Mr. Lau Tee handled my case.

Q. He has said here that Guy told you he was going to tell the truth and for you to say what you know and you said “be oui”?

A. No. Guy told me he was going to make a statement or else we would die there. If Guy said that to me I did not hear him. I did not say “be oui”. I did not open my mouth to speak. I do not know whether he lied but I did not hear.

Q. Miss Stravens has given evidence that when Guy has said he was going to make a statement you said “why should we suffer in someone’s place. Mr. Rene is sleeping in his bed and I’m in a cell”?

A. I did not say so. Miss Stravens has lied. She encouraged me to make a statement. She fooled me. She put her hand on my shoulder. She took me to Mr. Ashford for him to hit me. I made that statement because I was afraid. I thought I would be beaten again. I also thought I would be released. If they had given me the Rs.20,000, I would have taken it. I would take it. I would not be afraid of the money. I did not make the statement to get the money. I lied because I wanted to be released to see my children. Miss Stravens did tell me what to tell Mr. Lau Tee in my statement. The statement I made is all lies. I did it because I wanted to be released and I would see my children.

Q. When you mentioned Stanley Hermitte you knew he would have said the same thing as it was the truth?

A. Miss Stravens read out Stanley’s statement to me. I said what she told me to say. She read a statement to me and she told me it was Stanley’s statement. She did not show it to me. I believed her when she said it was Stanley’s statement. The statement I gave to Dingwall was true. I can repeat it if I’m asked to do so. He told me to sign if I wanted to or put my thumb print. I put my thumb print. Mr. Lau Tee asked me to sign and I signed it.

Q. I put it to you that you refused to sign the statement to Dingwall?

A. If I’d refused to sign it I would have refused to give the statement. I agreed to put my thumb print.

Q. The statement to Lau Tee is the truth and the whole truth?

A. It is not true. Miss Stravens knows it’s not true. She fooled me. She made me say Guy came to my place that night when in fact he did not come home.

Q. Your evidence today is only to help yourself and your brother Guy?

A. It’s the truth.

By Court:

Q. When you say Mr. Ashford got hold of your hair, shook you head and pushed you against the wall, you were standing?

A. Yes he stood in front of me. Both of us were standing.

Q. How far the wall was behind you at the time. (shows 3-4 feet away)

A. As he shook my head I went backwards until we reached the wall. He banged my head against the wall 3 times.

Q. You said he slapped you twice in the face and first slap was on the right side of your face and he was standing slightly on your right although in front of you?

A. Yes he stood opposite me. He was close to me – about 3 feet away from me. He struck me with the palm of his hand.

Q. Demonstrate the movement of his hand?

A. (She does so). He slapped me hard. I do not know which hand. I did not notice which hand.

Witness released.