DOWN MEMORY LANE

The Guy Pool Trial

Q. I put it to you the tape recorder was never used?

A. I say on oath that it was used.  It was there on the table and I saw it.  I know it was on.  I was speaking in it.  I could look in on the cassette and it was reeling.  I was not so interested  in the cassette.  I’m interested because they said in court that it was not used when in fact it was.  I can describe it because it was in front of me.  There were books and so on, on Mr. Ashford’s desk, books, papers and files.  I did not notice anything else.  When Mr. Ashford struck me I was standing on this side of his desk.  I was standing near the wall.  I was facing the desk, my back was to the wall.  The desk is not so near the wall.  He hit me in the right side of my abdomen.  I felt pain because I fainted.  It was a sharp blow.  He was serious, his face was red and his eyes were out big.  After I’d signed the statement he fooled me and made me believe all sorts of promises.  I did no tell the doctors next day and I did not tell anybody what happened.  I never made any complaint to the doctor.  The doctor saw my toe and asked me what I’d got.  I told him I had a nail off while playing football.  He told me he would send some medicine for me.  I made no other complaint to the doctor.  I did not complain about the food.  I just told him I was a bit weak because I could not eat prison food.  He told me he would see Mr. Ashford and make arrangements.  It was Dr. McGregor.  Mr. Ashford gave me a good breakfast that morning.  At 12 o’clock I got the same food as the previous night from prison.  I did not know what kind of food they would send me but I told him I could not eat food from prison.  They sent rice, fried fish and broth.  At home I ate rice, curry, salad and things like that.  I eat fish curry.  Sometimes I drank soup.  Prison food was quite different from what I ate at home.  Prison food has no taste.  I enjoyed the breakfast Mr. Ashford gave me.  I can’t remember everything he sent.  There was lettuce, ham, bacon, fried eggs, coffee in a coffee pot and something else.  I can’t remember.  I think it might be sausages.  That was for breakfast on 1st August about 9 a.m.  I had breakfast with Daphne.  They brought it on a tray.  I don’t know whether Daphne complained about the prison food.  I heard the doctor’s evidence.  I can’t remember if the doctor said that Daphne did not complain about food.  I can remember all the details I gave this afternoon.  I can’t remember whether the doctor said so.  My original lawyer was Mr. Rene then it was Mr. Valabhji.  I saw Mr. Rene on Saturday 29th.  The day I was arrested.  He came to see me.  That was the first time I saw him in connection with this case.  I think one of my parents went to tell him that I’d been arrested.

I told him to release me on bail because I’m innocent and I can prove it.  It could have been about 9 o’clock.  I was arrested about 3.30.  I stayed 2 hours at Anse Aux Pins police station.  I reached the Central Station at 6 and put in cell about 7.  Mr. Rene said he would look into it next day and see what he could do on Monday.  I don’t know whether he tried to release me on police bail.  On Monday morning I expected to see Mr. Rene.  He did not turn up.  I was not disappointed because I met Mr. Valabhji afterwards.  I did not contact Mr. Rene again.  I changed lawyers as from Monday.  Mr. Valabhji told me Mr. Rene has sent him.  I could not do otherwise.  Mr. Valabhji has been my lawyer since Monday 31st July.  I never told Mr. Valabhji about police brutality on me.  He was my lawyer.  I did not tell him so because of what Mr. Ashford told me.

Q.  What you said this afternoon is the 1st time Mr. Valabhji heard about it?

A.  Yes I did not want to tell him that’s all.  I did not tell anybody until Mr. Kapila came.  At the last moment I saw that Mr. Ashford was preparing a trap for me.  That was when Mr. Kapilla came to the prison department on Friday morning.  I don’t remember the date.  It was the day I came to Supreme Court to make a plea, the day the case started.  I had not seen Mr. Kapila before that.  I came to think Mr. Ashford has set a trap for me on that day because he had told me that the four of us would plead guilty and we won’t need a lawyer.  When Mr. Kapila asked us if we wanted him to plead our case to my great surprise, the three others said yes.  It was at this moment that I’d been tricked from the beginning.  Mr. Kapila interviewed the four of us together.  I had not spoken to the other three before.  I did not speak to Daphne about this case before, never.  I’m quite sure of that.  Not even in the cells we were far from each other.  I did not have the chance to ask her why she’d been crying.  We had breakfast together on 1st August.  I did not ask her because Miss Stravens was there with us.  I was told by Mr. Ashford not to say a word about it to my sister.  I said so in my evidence in chief.  I said he told me not to tell anybody about it.  I did no inquire about her well being.  I’m fond of her.  I do not have more to do with her than I have to do with my mother.  I’m fond of her as any ordinary brother and sister, no special affection.  I told the court that when I saw her passing with a puffed face I was so angry that I shouted.  I have an affection for her but not a special one.

 Q.  Why did you shout then?

A.  Because I was angry seeing my sister crying.  I did not inquire about it at breakfast.  I asked about it from Miss Stravens but not from Daphne.  I spoke to Miss Stravens many times.

Q.  For all you know Daphne might have been dying?

A.  Yes.

Q.  Yet you never asked her?

A.  No I signed the statement a number of times.  Mr. Ashford put a gun at my head.  When I took the pen from Wen Yam he removed his pistol.  He had levelled it just under my neck.  He pointed it about an inch from my neck.  He pointed it directly at me.  He stood near my chair where I was sitting.  We were both standing.  He was close to me, about 8-10” from me.  When I took the pen I avoided him a bit.  He took the gun away.  Before I signed the gun was at my neck.  When I started signing he removed the revolver.  I signed many times.  He did not point the pistol at me each time I had to sign.  Wen Yam pointed out where to sign.  Wen Yam was near me.  The gun was at my neck before I started  signing.  It was a revolver as long as that (shows 6-7”).  I did not have such a good look at it.  I saw it when he pulled it out from a sort of belt.  I don’t know whether it was loaded.  That’s completely true.  A cassette tape recorder was used that evening.  Before the statement Wen Yam came to my cell.  He came on Saturday after Mr. Rene had left.  I do not know what time it was.  I had no watch.  He asked me where I was on the night of the explosion.  I told him.  He asked me what I was doing at Bay Lazare and I told him.  After that he left me.  He was standing up when he spoke to me.  I was sitting.  He was inside the cell.

Q. Was it a friendly chat?

A.  Rather friendly.  I told him the truth about Bay Lazare.  I was at Bay Lazare.  I heard Amed Larue give evidence here.  I don’t remember him saying that I went up to him and told him to say that I’d been at Bay Lazare.  I don’t think he said that.  I can’t remember everything in my statement.  I asked for it last night to refresh my memory.  I wanted to be sure of the expressions which Mr. Ashford used with me.  The statement is true.  I expect the court to believe it.  After Wen Yam left, I slept until next morning, Sunday morning.  I spoke to a policeman and asked him to open the door so that I could go to the toilet.  On Sunday night about 7 Wen Yam came to see me.  He was alone.  It was about 7 o’clock.  I don’t know the exact time.  It was just the beginning to get dark.  He came to my cell.  He asked me almost the same questions which he had asked me the previous day e.g. with whom I went to the meeting, how did I go to Bay Lazare.  I told him and he left.  To me he was looking for details.  He stayed with me for 10-15 minutes.  I sat and he stood.  He left and I slept.  I had nothing on my mind.  Some minutes after he’d left I slept.  I fell asleep.  He came again alone.  He came inside the cell.  He did not sit down.  He woke me up by shaking me.  I was not annoyed by this.  He asked me whether I did not want to go to another country.  That’s his idea.  I asked him why didn’t he go himself I did not answer him brutally.  I only asked him why didn’t he go himself.  I could have told him of my plan to go to Australia but I did not want to tell him.  I did intend to go to Australia.  I did not tell Wen Yam so because I did not want to tell him.

I first told Mr. Kapila of the evidence I gave yesterday, on Friday morning before I came to court.  I was alone with him.  The others were outside.  The others pleaded not guilty and I decided to plead not guilty too.  I was with Mr. Kapila for about one hour.  I told him most of the things I said here yesterday.  I told him some which I had forgotten later while the case was on.  My story did not change or alter as the case went on.  I did not twist it to suit my case when I heard the prosecution witnesses.  I heard Mr. Ashford give evidence.

Q. You said in evidence that typed statement were put to you and you read it and it incriminated you and your sister?

A. Yes and the police changed it.

Q. Was this put to the witness?

A.  I can’t remember.  I think it was put to Wen Yam.  I don’t think it was put to Miss Stravens.

Q. I put it to you it was not put on record?

A. I don’t remember. I can’t remember everything that happened in court.

Q. You don’t have a good memory of what happened a few days ago but you remember in detail what happened a few months ago?

A. Yes.  It is true that 3 typed sheets were given to me by Wen Yam.  They were in creole single spaced.  I read it.  Part of it was incriminating for my sister and myself.  It said I passed at my sister’s place after placing the bomb.  I can’t remember how it was changed.  It said that Mr. Rene gave me the bomb and sent me to put it directly.  He changed that.  In the statement now it says I was given orange to drink so that the judge will believe I was drugged and I did so against my will.  The statement said that since long ago Mr. Rene had told me we were going to make a bomb.  I objected to it.  Also that the smell of gelignite made me unconscious to that I would not remember how the bomb was made.  This was when it was corrected it read that way.  I can’t remember every word in the typed statement.  It read that he brought me to his house to make a bomb and explain how it was made.  I did not agree with that and he changed it to “the smell of gelignite made me unconscious so that I would not remember how the bomb was made”.  It was changed to that as his suggestion.  I wanted to change it another way.  It blamed me too much but he changed it that way.

Q. You said it blamed you and your sister too much?

A. Yes, not that part but after that.  It’s true.

Q. Why was it not put to Mr. Ashford?

A. I did not give instructions to my lawyer to question Mr. Ashford about this.  I gave my statement to my lawyer.  I was not surprised that it was not put to Mr. Ashford.  I was listening to the evidence all the time.

Q. I put it to you that the whole essence of your case is that the police concocted the statement and tailored made to suit your convenience?

A. Yes.

Q. This essence was not put to Mr. Ashford?

A. I don’t remember.  I can’t remember whether it was put to Wen Yam and Miss Stravens.

Q. What you’re telling the court now is that when the essence of your case is there to be put to Mr. Ashford, Wen Yam and Miss Stravens you don’t even remember what happened in court?

Q. The essence of your case lay with Mr. Ashford.  Wen Yam and Miss Stravens and yet you don’t remember whether that matter was put to them?

A. I remember it was put to Wen Yam but he denied it.  He was asked if he handed me the 3 typed papers.

Q. Did you hear any question being asked from Wen Yam about changing anything on the typed papers?

A. I don’t remember.

Q.  You also said that Mr. Ashford put a gun to your neck and made you sign the statement?

A. Yes.

Q. Was it put to him?

A. It was not put that way.  Mr. Ashford did put a gun to my neck and forced me to sign.  It was in the presence of Wen Yam and Miss Stravens.  I don’t remember if they were questioned about my being forced to sign.

Q. I put it to you the reason Mr. Kapila did not put these questions is that you did not tell him until recently?

A. I instructed him before.  The day I gave my statement to him I told him about that.  I don’t remember whether he put it to the witness.

Q. What else was changed on the typed written statement?

A.  The part that said Mr. Rene sent me directly to put the bomb.  That after my sister brought me home I was so afraid that I slept on a rock.  On the typed statement it read “when my sister brought me home I went inside the house and slept”.  It was changed to “when my sister brought me home I was so afraid that I went on a rock to sleep”.  He knew that my mother knew I got home at 6.30.

Q. Why couldn’t you have changed it to say you slept at your sister’s place?

A. He changed it that way.  I said that my mother would say I reached home at 6.30 and how could the evidence say that I reached home at 2 as it read then.  I was not trying to change the statement to fit in with other facts which I knew.  I told him I don’t like it that way and I changed it to cover me a bit because it blamed me too much.

Q. What has the fact that your mother knew you got home at 6.30 got to do with the statement?

A.  It would be different because my mother knew I reached home at 6.30.  In fact I reached home at 6.30.  It was not to to fit in which the truth that I changed it but to fit it with my mother’s statement.  She told the truth.  I changed it to fit in with my mother’s statement.  It’s the truth.  There were lots of little bits that were changed but I don’t remember all.  I remember some of them.  It’s true.  There wer typed sheets and there were alterations.  I can’t remember every alteration.

The last part was Mr. Ashford’s suggestion that I should say that the statements which I gave to the police and Scotland Yard were false and made under the instructions of Mr. Rene.  They put it and I had to agree.

Q. You don’t mind blaming Mr. Rene for that but you minded his being blamed for the other parts?

A. I struck out the other part so as not to incriminate myself.  I agree to that statement.  I got this first part struck out.  I can’t remember whether it was put to Mr. Ashford and Wen Yam.

Q. And this is the essence of your case?

A. I think so.  It could be the point in it.

Q. Did you hear Mr. Kapila put a question to Miss Stravens about Embassy cigarettes?

A. Yes and I heard her deny it.

Q. Yet you never mentioned it in your evidence so far?

A. I forgot to mention it.  There are some questions which I remember.

Q. I put it to you that in view of Miss Stravens denial you dropped this question of Embassy cigarettes?

A. No.  I forgot to mention it.  I’ve bought Embassy cigarettes here some time ago.  I did get Embassy cigarettes that night.  I don’t know from whom it came.  I don’t remember the man in glasses who came with the tape recorder.  I only had a view of him when he came in, he put the tape recorder on the desk and he left.  I could not identify him.  He was wearing glasses not dark glasses.  I can’t remember him.  He appeared to be a Seychellois.  I don’t know who he is.  Even if I saw him I would not know him.  I knew he was not a stranger.  I could tell he was a Seychellois.  Some Seychellois have been abroad for long and it’s difficult to say if he’s here for a long time you can tell.  He is vital to my evidence.  He does exist.  He brought the tape recorder.  I think one or two of the witnesses were questioned about the tape recorder.  They denied it.  Mr. Ashford punched me under my ribs and I fainted.  After that it was a bit sore but it was not painful in the morning.  It caused me to faint.

Q. You mentioned fainting here twice?

A. Yes.

Q. Does it not sound peculiar?

A.Why.

Q.Answer me, does it not sound peculiar?

A. No.  It was the first time I fainted in my life.  I did not complain of it to the doctor.  The same morning after making the statement the Commissioner of Police and his Deputy came to see me.  They introduce themselves to me.  I did not tell them of it.  Mr. Ashford told me not to say so or it would bring trouble to me.  If I told that Mr. Goodchild, he could go and question Mr. Ashford who could come back and beat me again.  I do not know of the regulations in the cells, I did not know whether I could complain.

 The accused stated:

Mr. Ashford had fooled me, he told me it could bring trouble to myself.  Mr. Goodchild and Mr. Fenner asked me if I had complaints.  I knew they were senior officers to Mr. Ashford.  I did not tell them anything.

Q. That’s because nothing happened?

A. I don’t agree.  Before the Magistrate, Mr. Valabhji asked that I should be detained at the prison.  I don’t remember Mr. Valabhji raising the question of police brutality.  At that time anyway I had not been beaten yet.  I was beaten that night.  I did not tell Mr. Valabhji about the brutality on me on Wednesday.  I heard evidence given by P.C Kilindo and P.C Jean yesterday.  They said that nobody entered the cells.  I do not remember Mr. Lau Tee’s evidence.  It is true that my sister was brought upstairs and beaten long before I spoke to Lau Tee.  She was brought back to the cell and she was crying.  I saw her.  I did not see when she was brought out of the cell.  That was before I spoke to Lau Tee.  I don’t remember everything Lau Tee said.  Some things he said were true.  Miss Stravens lied, fully.  I am telling the truth.  It is true that I called Mr. Lau Tee from my cell.  I then told Daphne that I was going to make a statement otherwise we would die here.  I said it in creole.  Mr. Lau Tee mentioned that conversation.  I don’t know how he said it.  I did not tell Daphne that I was going to tell the truth.  Mr. Lau Tee lied on that point.  I don’t remember if my statement that what I said I told my sister was put to Lau Tee.  I ask the Court to disbelieve Lau Tee on that point and to believe me.  I don’t remember if it was put to Mr. Ashford that he told me to write a note to Mr. Hoareau when I got to the prison.  I told Mr. Kapila of it since Friday morning.

Q. I put it to you that you wrote that letter on your own initiative?

A. No.  When Mr. Ashford entered my cell he sat near me on my bunk.  Wen Yam and Stravens were standing by the door from inside the cell.  Mr. Ashford asked me where I was on the night of 13th February.  I started telling him and he told me to stop wasting his time with that evidence i.e. the evidence I was relating to him as to where I was that night.  He said he already had lots of evidence against me and proof too from other people in the bomb affair.  I can’t say whether he said “affairs” or “affair”.  He said that if I give evidence my sister and I would be set free as soon as the one most important person is arrested.  I don’t know what my sister has to do with the bomb affair.  I did not ask her.  At Anse Aux Pins Police Station I asked her why she’d been arrested and said she thought Stanley had been telling lies about her because she’d left him.  I did not get the chance to talk to her.  When we were with Mr. Kapila I did not speak to her because I did not have time.  He was interrogating us.  I said no, the others said yes.  So I was surprised and I said “I better tell you every thing”.  The others went out.  I spoke to Harry Bonte many times.  I did not speak to Claude Vidot.  I asked if he was married, if he had children.  I asked him why he had been arrested and he said he did not know.  I did not tell him that I had been beaten.  I did not tell my sister that I had been beaten.  I did not complain about any other police officers to Mr. Kapila.  I was not induced by any other officer apart from Mr. Ashford, Wen Yam and Miss Stravens.  I never complained to Mr. Ashford that the Scotland Yard Officer had levelled a gun at my head on a bench.  Mr. Ashford told me that once a most important person is arrested we would be freed.  I was surprised at first.  I talked to Stanley before.  I did not tell him not to make a statement.  Mr. Ashford offered me Rs. 50,000 Government was offering Rs.70,000.  I was not surprised when Mr. Ashford offered me Rs.50,000.  It was not for the money that I made the statement.  I did it so that I would not be beaten again.  I feared Mr. Ashford would beat me and that’s why I made the statement.  I did not do it because I was induced by promise or favour.  I did write questions on a magazine cover.  I would not say that the first question was when would I get my money.  It was one of the questions.  It’s the first thing I mentioned here.  After the statement which I gave under fear, then I became interested in the money.  I wanted to know whether my statement and Daphne’s and Stanley’s agreed.  I wanted to know so that I could be released from my cell.  I asked if Bonte had given a statement.  I spoke to Bonte afterwards but I did not discuss the case with him.  Miss Straven told me later that Bonte had made a statement.  I do not remember whether this question was put to Miss Stravens.  I was interested to know if Bonte’s statement agreed with mine.  Miss Stravens told me before I had a chance to ask Bonte.  I was not surprised to hear from Miss Stravens that Bonte’s statement agreed with mine.  I was not surprised because I was just waiting for the moment when I would be out for Mr. Rene to be arrested.  It is not true that I was not surprised that his statement agreed with mine because it was the truth.  He told me that once the statements agreed I would be released.  Mr. Ashford told me so.  I did not know which Bonte it was, I only saw on the statement that it was Bonte.  It is not true that Bonte and I were both involved.  I did not know him from night of 13th/14th February.  I know Flake Vidot.  I met him long ago about 2 years.  It was not I who mentioned Flake in the statement.  In court here I heard evidence that the police did not know who Flake was.  He did not know who the right one was.  I cannot say anything about Mr. Ashford concerning statement about people who he does not know.  It was his idea.  Flake is Rene Vidot.  I heard the evidence that they arrested two Vidots to know the right one was and that they arrested the wrong man.  I don’t know if this sounds peculiar.  I heard the evidence that Bonte was arrested after I was arrested, that Rene Vidot was arrested afterwards and Claude Vidot was arrested afterwards.  Mr. Ashford told me he had evidence from other sources for these two but he needed evidence to confirm and I think that’s why he could not arrest the others before he arrested me.  I do not know why they were released.  I don’t know why they were arrested.  The statement I gave to Wen Yam was not true. 

Q. I put it to you it was on the strenght of your information that these men were arrested?

A. No.  It was not the first time I mentioned security for my wife when I talked to Hoareau.  I had also mentioned it to Mr. Ashford.  I told him he people would revolt against me and if they don’t get me they’ll get my wife outside.  I am still worried about my wife.  I am not married.  My wife is really my concubine.  I am very attached to her.  In my statement to the police I said that I spent the night on the beach with another girl.  That was the thruth.  It does not show great attachment for my wife.  It’s true that I spent the night on the beach with another girl.  I can’t remember her now.

Q. I put it to you that when you say the statement was false it’s not true.

A. It’s true.  A tape recorder was used in spite of the denial by the police.  Wen Yam did come to my cell on Saturday and Sunday.  It’s true that he and Miss Stravens visited my cell on Monday at 6-6.30.  They did not tell me that Mr. Ashford would beat me up.  They told me you don’t know who Mr. Ashford is, if you keep on being stubborn you’ll soon know.  That’ the truth.  Mr. Ashford, Wen Yam and Stravens came to my cell that evening.  They mentioned to me about making a statement implicating Mr. Rene.  Mr. Ashford told me of the Rs.50,000. reward and that I would be sent to Australia.  That’s the truth.  Mr. Ashford came again after I’d seen Daphe crying.  That was when he gave me a slap.  He was in the cell.  He gave me a back hand slap on my right cheek.  The back part of his hand slapped me.  That’s the truth.  Then he went out and later he returned with Miss Stravens.  Before slapping me he spoke to me.  He asked me “are you ready to speak”.  I said “Im ready to say the truth”.  He replied “Did you hear your sister a few minutes ago, she has got it and you’re going to get it”.  I shouted at him “why did you beat her”.  He answered “why?  You’re going to get the same and more and remember no lawyer and no doctor would see if I’ve beaten you”  He said it to me, I don’t know if it was peculiar.  It did not sound peculiar to me.  I was frightened.  A doctor did come to see me and my sister many times.  We did not complain.  I did not complain to Mr. Rene and Mr. Valabhji.  I complained to Mr. Kapila.  What I’ve said is the truth.  I’m not making s serious allegation against a senior police officers.    I told Mr. Ashford “I won’t give any false evidence”.  That’s when he gave me a back hand slap, a violent one.  It broke my upper lip from inside.  It bled.  I did not tell the doctor.  I did not see whether there was mark on my face.  I know of my cup lip from inside.  There’s no mirror in  the cell.  Mr. Ashford told me “remember it’s only the beginning of 14 days”.  Then he left.  He did not say anything else.  He came back a few minutes later.  He told me he’s going to La Gigolette to make up mind and when I’m ready to give a statement to send for him.  He left me in my cell.  He went with Miss Stravens.  That’s the truth.  He told me everything I’ve said.   Mr. Lau Tee did not come to my cell.  I saw him passing in the corridor.  It was about half an hour later Mr. Ashford had left.  I called him and told him I wanted to go to the toilet.  He told me he would fetch the key.  He came and opened the cell door.  I went towards the toilet.  As I passed in front of Daphne’s cell I called out to her “Daphe I’m going to make a statement otherwise they will kill us here”.  In Court Mr. Lau Tee said he heard otherwise.  He lied on that part.  Daphne did look puffed up (bouffu).  Her face was swollen, it looked swollen.  At 8 a.m her face was still a bit swollen.  She is of a white complexion, as white as me.  I could see her eyes were red.  Her face was puffed up but not as bad as the previous hours.  I heard the evidence of Mr. Fenner and Mr. Goodchild that they saw Daphne earlier on and they did not notice anything wrong with her.  That’s what they said.

Q. Are you saying they are telling lies?

Mr. Kapila: This is an improper question.  It is a matter of opinion.

Court :  Question allowed.

A. I heard them being asked if they’d seen signs of recent weeping on Daphne.  I heard their answer.  It differs from my answer.  Mr. Lau Tee opened the cell and let me out to  go to the toilet.  He went to fetch the key.  He came back 2-3 minutes after.  He let me out.  I don’t remember the question being put to Mr. Ashford that he had the key.   A gun was pointed at me.  Threats were made to me.  I was assaulted.  I don’t know about Daphne being assaulted.  I did hear screams that night.  I have not made up an elaborate issue of lies.  I have not misled the court.  My statement to Wen Yam was not voluntary or true.

February 23, 2007

Copyright 2007: Seychelles Weekly, Victoria, Mahe, Seychelles