INTERVIEW WITH THE Hon. WAVEL RAMKALAWAN
“It’s a high price to pay to be known. But I hope the clubbing has made people aware of the problems that we face, not just getting our names recognized”
Le Nouveau Seychelles Weekly: I don’t think you need any introduction do you? Because as the result of the clubbing you and Jean Francois got at the entrance to the National Assembly the whole world now knows you.
Wavel Ramkalawan: It’s a high price to pay to be known. But I hope the clubbing has made people aware of the problems that we face, not just getting our names recognized.
LNSW: Can you tell us exactly what happened that day. One minute we all saw you talking to your supporters, the next time we saw you, was on a hospital bed?
W.R: Well, it was that way for me too. One minute I was on the steps of the National Assembly building and the next thing I knew I was on a hospital bed.
After I had spoken on the amendment in the Assembly, I joined our supporters in front of the National Assembly building. I had said a few words to them when Superintendent Beauchamps called me aside. He wanted to talk about dispersing the crowd and I discussed this with him together with our lawyer, Antony Derjacques. It was agreed that we would ask the crowd to disperse when the SSU burst on the scene. Someone made an announcement with a loud-hailer and the next thing I was being dragged inside and clubbed on the head. It was my bodyguard who intervened and shielded me from some of the blows.
LNSW: How deep are the psychological scars of that experience?
W.R: Personally, there are no deep psychological scars but politically it is a very disturbing event because we saw that there is no limit to the brutality with which the police treat the opposition. You have to remember that our supporters have faced this kind of treatment repeatedly, especially around election time and after results are announced.
LNSW: Have you and the President had an occasion to discuss what happened on that day? What do you sense as being the reaction of the SPPF leadership to the injuries you and Jean Francois sustained on that day? Is it “this is out of line” or is it “serve them right”?
W.R: There has been no discussion – apparently the suggestion of dialogue did not include that. I was disappointed by the reaction of Mr. Michel in praising the actions of the police. I believe it showed a deep misunderstanding of democratic norms, especially when it is followed by calls for the opposition to renounce violence when it is the authorities who are responsible for violence.
LNSW: Which of the following leaders would you say best resembles France Albert Rene in terms of ideology and modus operandi; Idi Amin, Bokassa. Mobutu, Julius Nyerere, Daniel Arap Moi? If it is none of the above please feel free to provide comparisons of your own.
W.R: It is not that he is like any one of them but that he is like all of them. They are all dictators who do not tolerate political opposition.
LNSW: If you were to eulogies Albert Rene what would you say about him?
W.R: I don’t think I will have to do that.
LNSW: Regar has shut down. Do you think that, that was a wise move on the part of your Party? What do you see as being the benefit to the SNP? Has it not lost its voice? Was shutting Regar down something that had the support of all your members?
W.R: The closure is a matter of necessity as much as it is a protest. What it says is that Regar takes a huge effort to produce and if on top of that we are hit with huge damage awards which are not justified, then we cannot continue. We will not publish under this kind of burden, only to allow those in power to claim that there are opposition newspapers in
LNSW: The transition from dictatorship to democracy is never easy and is monumentally slow. Do you see a role for the judiciary in that process? Is the judiciary as presently constituted an asset to this democratising process or has it been an impediment?
W.R: Of course, the judiciary is a key player in the democratic process. Up to now, it has shown a lack of independence and a strong tendency to back the government. Look at the EDA for example which the courts here defended as excellent legislation, but which was later clearly shown to be contrary to all international norms. See also what happened when we had three judges come especially to hear an appeal in a case brought by the Bar Association on the re-appointment of judges. The three judges from southern
LNSW: 14 years into this transitional process would you say that
W.R: I would say that in many ways we are going backwards and if we don’t make a stand now, we may lose out.
LNSW: For the 13 or so years that the Opposition has been represented in the National assembly do you think that it made any difference to the outcome of the legislative debates?
W.R: It makes a big difference but its role is not accepted and respected by the SPPF side. It’s only the Opposition which has moved the Government to do many things. The problem is that we have to fight against the odds while the SPPF attitude is use the process and the media for their own advantage.
LNSW: So in other words your presence there was only window dressing for the world to see that Seychelles now has “Multi-Party democracy”?
W.R: That’s what the SPPF want us there for, but we cannot accept to play that game.
LNSW: Even when you were the solitary voice of OU/SNP in the National Assembly you gave the SPPF members a run for their money, so much so that SBC was ordered to stop broadcasting National Assembly debates after SNP became the largest opposition Party. So don’t you think that total withdrawal from political life is as much an impediment to the democratizing process as having a totally abject judiciary?
W.R: There is no withdrawal from political life, not at all. As a party we are very active. We have concrete aims and a clear agenda. We want to establish fair and equitable conditions for the political process and for the electoral process. We are doing this to further democracy not to impede it.
LNSW: Do you think that the changes your Party wants to see in
W.R: At the ballot box, the odds are stacked against us. This is why we are working for certain changes ahead of the ballot box.
LNSW: The opposition press is yet another weapon in the fight against unjust and undemocratic institutions. Its power in denouncing the atrocities of the past and the roles that current institutions and individuals have in them cannot be underestimated. Do you agree with this assertion? If you do, don’t you think that by shutting down Regar and boycotting the National Assembly the Opposition has lost the most important tool at its disposal, to bring about changes?
W.R: There are specific reasons why we have taken these two actions, and these actions are serving their purpose. We are saying that a free press and the presence of the Opposition in the National Assembly are essential parts of democracy. But they can play their role only if they are allowed to do so.
LNSW: The reverse of that coin is that in order for the boycott to be effective, it has to be total. For example SNP has to spectacularly pull out all its cases from the court because to continue before the SPPF controlled court is to lend credibility to that institution. Do you agree with this proposition?
W.R: We have cases in court on several very critical issues. It is important for the courts to pronounce themselves on these. The point is that we will not stop with what the courts say if we are not satisfied that it is right. We will do what we can to take the struggle further.
LNSW: Is the Opposition participation in this enquiry not going to be seen as helping the SPPF in its PR exercise?
W.R: If you are talking about the Commission of Inquiry on the October 3 incident, we believe that the Commission can establish the truth and go on to lay down the principles on which the police should base its actions. The Commission can give a clear definition of what law and order means. I believe it can show that law and order mean first of all respect for the Constitution and for the rights of citizens.
LNSW: There have been suggestions or criticisms even, that internally, SNP is not democratically structured what are your views?
W.R: The SNP meets all the democratic requirements, much more so than any other party in
LNSW: Would you please spell out the conditions that the SPPF regime would have to meet before the political boycott is called off.
W.R: As I said, we are not boycotting politics. We are fully engaged politically. We are simply not attending Assembly sessions and not publishing Regar. We will decide on these in relation to our goals of bringing about fairer conditions.
LNSW: The endgame will either be before the courts or the police. So, should one of your conditions not be a total overhauling of the judiciary and the police force?
W. R: There are essential reforms required in both but principally a change of attitude to accommodate to multi-party democracy and to respect the Constitution. Everybody knows exactly what the Courts and the police should be doing. They only have to accept that they are not servants of the SPPF but that they are there to uphold democracy and the law.
Mr. Ramkalawan Thank you.